Recently, there was an article on Fulcrum7 by Eugene Prewitt where he quoted Deuteronomy 6:6 that says “these words” in referring to what is in the Bible, and he also wrote: “They should be hearing and thinking of God’s words continuously.” Since this is exactly what I believe, and that he has said before that he doesn’t believe, I asked him if he does believe this now that the words in the Bible are from God. He gave a very strange reply:
“The Ten Commandments are referred to in Scripture as Ten Words. And as they were written with the finger of God I most certainly believe that these Ten Words are, in fact, God’s “words” even in the modern sense of words. But in the Biblical sense, a “word” is often an idea (like in the phrase, “May I have a word with you?” And so I do believe that the whole Bible is the words of God though the vocabulary reflects the language skill and habits of the various prophets who were God’s penmen, albeit not his pen. But I have a hard time imagining that you ask in good faith since we have discussed this to ad nasium in the past. I risk my life on the reliability and authority of Scripture. There is not an idea in Scripture to which I do not bow.”
So he believes that the whole Bible “is the words of God”, but, …… he bows to only ideas in Scripture??? That’s just WEIRD.
I told him that he was welcome to believe whatever he wanted, but when writing that he believes the “words of God”, when he does NOT believe the words are from God, is being self-contradictory.
At this point, David Read jumped into to the discussion to show his double-speaking on the issue as well. “Single issue posters are tiresome, and in your case wrong. If you keep agitating verbal inspiration, your posts will be deleted.”
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earlysda
I have never advocated verbal inspiration.
I believe the words in the Bible are God’s words.
The author of this article quotes “God’s words” as if he believes in them too, yet says in later posts that he only believes the ideas in the Bible.
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David Read Mod
If you believe the words in the Bible are God’s words, then you believe in verbal inspiration. Believing that the words are God’s words is EXACTLY what “verbal inspiration” means. What did you imagine that the phrase meant? And that is exactly the position you promote and agitate with monomaniacal frenzy in nearly every post.
Adventists do not believe in verbal inspiration:
“The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God’s mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God’s penmen, not His pen.” 1 SM 21.1
Apparently, “earlysda” is so early his opinions were formed before Ellen White began her prophetic ministry.
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earlysda
They come to me, those that are copying my writings, and say, Now here is the better revised words, and I think I will put that in. Dont you change one word, not a word. The revised edition we do not need at all. We have got the word that Christ has spoken Himself and given us. And dont you in my writings change a word for any revised edition. There will be revised editions, plenty of them, just before the close of this earths history, and I want all my workers to understand, and I have got quite a number of them. I want them to understand that they are never to take the revised word, and put it in the place of the plain, simple words just as they are. They think they are improving them, but how do they know but that they may switch off on an idea, and give it less importance than Christ means them to have. {Ms188-1907}
I don’t believe in “verbal inspiration”, but if you want to pretend I do, that’s fine with me. I will continue to believe all the words in the Bible and Ellen White are “God’s words”, (as the author of this article has said, and Gerry Wagoner has strongly implied by saying “inspired words”):
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Jeremiah 13:10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
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David Read Mod
You believe that God inspired the very words used by the Bible writers and by Ellen White. Whatever you want to call that–and everyone else calls it “verbal inspiration”–it is not what Adventists believe.
Your Ellen White quote, in which she is telling people not to paraphrase her writings, is not on point. Even though God inspires writers, not individual words, it is not the place of non-inspired editors or redactors to change what inspired writers have written. You are trying to bootstrap that very sensible warning into a proof of verbal inspiration. But verbal inspiration is refuted by many other passages, including:
“It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man’s words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.” (Manuscript 24, 1886; written in Europe in 1886.)
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earlysda
That the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament were given by inspiration of God, contain an all-sufficient revelation of His will to men, and are the only unerring rule of faith and practice (2 Timothy 3:15-17). – Seventh-day Adventists Fundamental Beliefs 1931
It is because there is such inattention in hearing the lessons Christ has given to us, and such negligence in doing His words, that there is so great want of spiritual health and vital spiritual life in our midst. – 1888 Materials
When we become as little children, sitting at the feet of Jesus, learning of Him self-denial and what it is to live by faith in every word of God, then the soul finds rest and peace. – 1888 Materials
The faith of those who believe every word of God is accounted unto them for righteousness. – MR 12
Do we believe every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Do we believe the words that have been spoken by prophets and apostles, by Jesus Christ, who is the author of all light and blessing, and in whom dwelleth all richness and fullness? – 3RH
I believe every word spoken by the prophets and apostles inspired by the Holy Spirit. – Medical Missionary
Never are we to put our words in the place of God’s words; for thus we would be taking away from His law.
…. we are not to allow our minds to be diverted from the Word of the Lord, to the words of men.
– Letters to Sanitarium Workers in Southern CaliforniaThe word of Christ needs to be spoken with authority, “Get thee behind me, Satan.” Let me come close to my servant, that he may not be overcome, that he may believe my words rather than the words of men; for what I speak is truth and righteousness. – Letter to the Crew of the Pitcairn
Of course Ellen White also used the exact phrase “inspired words” 7 different times, and “words of God” over 100 times.
In 1931, our denomination officially believed that the words in the Bible were “unerring”, and since there are many times we are told that no human is unerring, we see that the Church officially believed the words were from God. However, before that, and after that, we have used the word “infallible” instead, which is much weaker, and allows for thought inspiration.
The Bible itself, of course, is adamant that the words in it are from God, and not from man. In all my interaction with those of opposing views on this subject of inspiration, I’ve only had one person ever attempt to use the Bible to support their position that the words in it are not from God. They used the example of the king burning Jeremiah’s book, and then he having his scribe, Baruch, to rewrite it. Of course that does nothing to prove the words in it are not from God.
It’s funny to see God’s humor in making this discussion about his words being in the Bible, or just his ideas, so plain, that he even taught us the answer by using a donkey – ha!
If you wish to attempt to refute a donkey, I’m all ears. 🙂
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David Read Mod
Sadly, according to you the King James Bible is not inspired. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, so only the Hebrew and Greek words are the “words of God.” The English words in the KJV are an entirely different set of words, which are not inspired. Same thing for Ellen White: bad luck for our friends who are reading her in Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, etc. Their versions are not inspired.
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earlysda
Since you don’t have any biblical evidence for your position, you make up yet another falsehood about me?
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David, I used to have respect for you. I thot you were logical and straight in your writing.
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But I see in this conversation that twice you have resorted to outright falsehoods regarding my position. If this was a just a difference of opinion, then we could still be Brothers in Christ and let it be. But by just throwing out falsehoods and telling people this is what a Brother believes…. that is definitely not what a Brother does.
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Please repent, and follow all the holy words of Jesus, the one who created all the languages.
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David Read Mod
You don’t know what you believe, and you couldn’t say what you believed if you tried. You have become tiresome.
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I do hope David Read, Eugene Prewitt, and all other fellow SDAs who speak and write that they do believe the words of God, when they DON’T believe the words of God, will repent, and start believing all the words of God – the Holy Bible.