42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
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Laying in bed last nite thinking over this image, i got to wondering why the toes are so “long”. Babylon, the head, didn’t even last 100 years, then the chest lasted around 200, and the thighs not even 200, then the long legs of Rome which lasted all the way down to 1798 when the pope was taken prisoner. I can understand that. But the feet and toes should not last so long, but here we are, over 210 years after they got started.

I know that in one respect we are “in the toes”, as that means we are in the final stages of this earth’s history, but really, are we in a period of time, or have we even seen a period of time since 1798 when there were 10 kings ruling the world?

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Who are these 10 kings? Since they are partly iron, we can be safe in believing that part of them will be related somehow to the Roman empire. What is the clay? hmmm The bible mentions Israel as being clay, and also all humans as being clay. I don’t see much help there. Maybe it would be good to find some root definitions for “clay”? I don’t see much help in tracking down “chaff” either, as that is what all these metals are called after the stone hits them. It is interesting to note that the stone doesn’t just destroy the direct metals it strikes – the iron and clay, but it destroys all the metals in the image.

Where i am 100% sure, is that the statutes of the Lord are definitely necessary to be kept even today. Ellen White and the Bible are super clear on this. What i’m not 100% sure of, is, are all the feasts of the Lord considered “statutes” also? It sure looks that way, but not positive yet.

Please understand that i am NOT anxious to keep the feasts of the Lord. In reading the Bible all the way thru for the first time over 20 years ago, it bugged me a little tho, that the 7th-day Sabbath is also a feast – according to Leviticus 23:1-3. Then, in reading the Bible thru several times since then, it always is a bit of a prick to my heart when i come to that area. Why do we Seventh-day Adventists say to keep one of those feasts, but not the others? Where is the Bible proof for that? And why do we Seventh-day Adventists wave the banner high about keeping statutes such as not eating pork and other unclean animals, paying tithe, and saying the statutes regarding sexual relations should be kept, but we pointedly ignore others such as the injunction for men not to round their beards (whatever that means), not mixing woolen and linen in our clothes, women and men not wearing each others’ clothing, and of course – the feasts?

Then last year when i stayed with relatives in Atlanta, they challenged me to search it out for myself. I was quite skeptical, and found a good article by Joe Crews, a man i highly respect as a powerful man of God, where he showed that all the ceremonies ended at the cross. It satisfied me, and i blew off this feast stuff. But then this year i got very interested in searching out God’s calendar, and found out that i had misplaced my trust in others. It is very likely that this was not present truth in Br. Crew’s time, or Ellen White’s time, but it is becoming more and more apparent that we SDAs are deceiving ourselves when we opt to keep some statutes, and not others, and one of the Sabbaths, but not ALL the Sabbaths of the Lord.

I’m not 100% convinced yet, so kind of hoping that someone will show where i see something wrong. I wonder, “How will we keep the feasts”? Of course there are no more sacrifices and oblations, just as prophesied in Daniel 9:27 (And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease). But the days still seem to be necessary to be kept, just as we keep the 7th day Sabbath. What is a problem, is that it will mean up to 7 more days a year to refrain from work.

While it is the feast days that are the most obvious things in the discussion, in actuality, the discussion is about the statutes. That the statutes of the Lord, as given to Moses, are all binding on God’s children today is truth beyond the shadow of a doubt as shown in the quotes below. This is the main issue, and a subset issue is “what is included in the statutes?”, and then, if the feasts are included, as they seem to be, a subset of that issue would be “what feasts are we supposed to keep?”, broken down further into “how should we keep the feasts?”. Another large branch of the discussion would be what exactly was done away with on the cross, as we are 100% certain that the “ceremonial laws” were finished on the cross.

Here are 2 quotes from the SOP, and one from the Bible:
1RH 1875-5-6
In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law.
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6RH 1900-12-25
“This day the Lord thy God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments; thou shalt therefore keep and do them with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. Thou hast avouched the Lord this day to be thy God, and to walk in His ways, and to keep His statutes, and His commandments, and His judgments, and to hearken unto His voice.” This is not the voice of man; it is the voice of Christ from the infolding pillar of cloud. Read carefully all of Deuteronomy 26, also chapters 27 and 28; for here are stated plainly the blessings of obedience.

These directions, which the Lord gave to His people, express the principles of the law of the kingdom of God, and they are made specific, so that the minds of the people may not be left in ignorance and uncertainty. These scriptures present the never-ceasing obligation of all whom God has blessed with life and health and advantages in temporal and spiritual things. The message has not grown weak because of age. God’s claims are just as binding now, just as fresh in their importance, as God’s gifts are fresh and continual.
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Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
—————–
We have always believed that this Bible verse will be fulfilled just before the return of Christ, which makes this study about the statutes that much more exciting, as it looks like it will lead directly into the Elijah Message!
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In studying out God’s calendar, it impressed me how our spiritual forefathers in the 1843/4 movement came to exactly the correct date! With all the disinformation out there, the Holy Spirit was still able to lead them into the truth. And that truth was that a very important thing in the entire history of humanity happened exactly on the Day of Atonement in 1844. Of course the Early Rain was poured out exactly on a feast day too, and both of these happened after the cross, so it is impossible to say that they were abolished at the cross. But was it only the blood sacrifices that were done away with? What is the actual significance of the feasts for us now, and how are we to physically keep all the statutes of God about wearing ribbands of blue on the fringes of our clothes and not rounding the corners of our beards etc. etc., things which i have no clue about how to follow in this day and age.

As seen above, it is true that the statutes were given to be a hedge of protection around the 10 Commandments. They further define and make practical the precepts given succinctly in those 10 “words”. That this is a salvational issue is true. IF it is true that the feasts must be kept too, and we do not keep them, then we will be considered “lawbreakers”. Please remember that each generation has new light. William Miller was not accountable for not accepting the light of the Sabbath truth. But those who kept him from that light and rejected it will be outside the Holy City when it appears from heaven. At each step on the upward path God shines more light unto the bright and perfect day. If we see that light as darkness, how will we be able to discern the path we are to trod?

But is all this feast business in fact new light, or is it really just another distraction of Satan, one of many like the sacred name movement, lunar sabbaths, anti-trinity doctrine etc. etc.? We must be sure. If we take darkness for light, we will definitely fall off into the chasm where the wicked world is below.
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the statutes of the LORD [are] right, rejoicing the heartRead More »

Now the next not good idea comes along, this time interestingly enough from the Vatican. It calls for a “global public authority”, and most interestingly – for a “central world bank”. hmmm. Some bells should be going off in people’s minds who’ve read Revelation 13. Vatican’s global call

7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.

16 And he causes all, small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, that they should receive marks on their right hand, or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may be able to buy or sell except he that has the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

8RED The Teachings of Paul, and his Mission to the Gentiles p. 60

Paul Goes to Corinth. Paul did not wait for his brethren, but, leaving them to follow him, went at once to Corinth. Here he adopted a different course of action from that which had marked his labors at Athens. While in the latter place, he had adapted his style to the character of his audience; and much of his time had been devoted to the discussion of natural religion, matching science with science, logic with logic, and philosophy with philosophy. But when the apostle reviewed the time and labor he had there devoted to the exposition of Christianity, and realized that his style of teaching had not been productive of much fruit, he decided upon a different plan of labor in the future. He determined to avoid discussions of theories and elaborate arguments as much as possible, but to urge the doctrine of salvation through Christ upon sinners. In his epistle to his Corinthian brethren, he afterward described his manner of laboring among them:–…..

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His success in preaching the gospel occasioned some of the church to exalt his labors above those of Paul, while he himself was working in perfect harmony with Paul for the advancement of the cause. This rival spirit threatened to greatly hinder the work. Paul had purposely presented the gospel to the Corinthians in its veriest simplicity.

Disappointed with the result of his labors in Athens, where he had brought his learning, eloquence, and ability to bear upon his hearers, he determined to pursue an entirely different course in Corinth. He presented there the plain, simple truth, unadorned with worldly wisdom, and studiously dwelt upon Christ, and his mission to the world. The eloquent discourses of Apollos, and his manifest learning, were contrasted by his hearers with the purposely simple and unadorned preaching of Paul.

Surprisingly, given that there are many feasts and such appointed by the Lord, there is no super clear instruction given for the exact date to start a new year. About the closest it gets is this in Exodus 12:2 “This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.”

Here is where opinions start to diverge. It is not very clear exactly what is meant by “this month”. The month name was called “Abib” (Ex. 13:4 etc.) and abib means “ripe barley”, so the Karaite Jews insist that the barley must be ripe before a new year can start. Since the early Adventists based their calculation of the correct Day of Atonement on October 22, 1844, by what they thot were the Karaite methods, this fact must be examined more closely.

On the other hand, the Rabbis started just calculating the feasts and months and years all numerically, even coming up with odd rules that no “non-working” feast could fall next to a Sabbath, as that would involve too much hardship if you couldn’t work for 2 days in a row (?!), and it is very safe to say that no one really attempting to find the true calendar that God desires uses the Rabbis’ calculations for other than a very broad reference, always remembering the words of Jesus how they “have made of none effect the words of God”.

So what do the Karaites have to offer? They say that basically, the first new, visible crescent moon after some ripe barley has been discovered in modern day Israel signals the start of a new year. No, really, that is what they do based on the fact that the Bible says to: Leviticus 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Yes, even as i write this, that sounds like extremely weak evidence to start a new year when the barley crop has ripened in some location in Israel, but that is what they do.

The Karaite calendar sometimes starts one month later than the Rabbinical calendar, but most often, it is just one day apart, and sometimes not at all. That is because the Rabbis start their new year at the “conjunction” (when the moon is still dark), whereas the Karaites start it when the first crescent is visible, which is usually one day later. The current leaders of the Karaites claim that their date for the Day of Atonement in 1844 was the same as the Rabbi’s date, (September 23).

The Jewish civil year starts in the fall, in what is called the “7th month” in the Bible (Tishri). That usually falls around the middle of September in the Gregorian calendar. Jewish year 5771 started on September 9, 2010, and 5772 will start on September 29, 2011, as 5771 is a leap year with an extra month.

The Bible explains this year that begins in the Autumn season in Exodus 23:16, 34:22, and Leviticus 23:39. Again, it is not explicitly spelled out, but it is readily seen that when the crops were gathered in was considered as the end of the year, and this was in the Fall. And in checking actual Israelite practice, you can find that they used a “civil” calendar starting sometime in September, and a “religious” calendar starting sometime around the Spring equinox.

The Bible is clear on WHAT to use to determine the days, times, seasons, and years – Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.

Interestingly, the word used translated here as “seasons”, is the same as to refer to the feasts, or “appointed times”, thus giving a very strong reason to use the sun, moon, and stars as the only objects to determine when the “year” starts, and when the “appointed times and feasts” start.

The method to determine the new year that makes the most sense to me, is to find the first conjunction of the moon (dark phase) that occurs after the spring equinox, and start from there. This method uses only the sun and moon, (maybe stars a little), just as specified in Genesis 1:14 to find the time to start a new year.

Granted tho, there is NO TEXT in the Bible that specifically says anything about using the equinox or conjunction to determine the start of a new year. Why do i believe in it then? Because of the weight of evidence as shown below.

All the following will be based on the “religious” calendar, as that is the calendar all the feasts were based on.

The current Gregorian calendar does away with any moon-related reckonings (solar only), but the Hebrew calendar is largely based on the moon, with confirmation from the sun (luni-solar). Without going into too much detail, and using approximation, suffice it to say that solar year has 365 days, while the luni-solar year has 354 days. Things could get out of whack very quickly, so there are lots of “leap months” in the Hebrew calendar. Adding a leap month would give a leap year 384 days.

There is a 19 year cycle between the moon and sun that is a close match in total number of days. The latest 19 year cycle began in October 1997 (working with the Gregorian calendar). Leap years are every 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 years in the cycle. This would mean that 2012, as the 16th year in the cycle, would not be a leap year, but 2013 and 2015 would be (starting in the Fall of the year).

The early Adventists were astute students, and determined that the Karaites calculated the new year more according to the Biblical principle than anyone else, so they used their methods, with one important difference — they did not give any weight to the idea that one must go tramping around the physical land known as Israel (Palestine) to hunt for ripe barley before you can declare the start of a new year. They used only the idea that you must see a crescent of the moon after the Spring equinox to determine the start of a new year. Is it necessary to physically “see” a new moon before you can start a new month or year? It doesn’t seem so.

So when do the equinox and first new moons, (conjunctions), after the equinox occur between 2012-2015? The following shows the times at GMT, (Universal Time) (England’s!), according to http://www.timeanddate.com/:

Equinox…………….New……………….Rabbinical
(at equator)………..Moon………………New Year
2012 3/20 5:14…..3/22 14:37……….3/23 1:57
2013 3/20 11:02…4/10 9:36…………3/12 10:46
2014 3/20 16:57…3/30 18:45……….3/31 8:18
2015 3/20 22:45…3/20 9:36…………3/21 5:07
………………………4/18 18:57

As can be readily seen there are 2 major discrepancies between the above dates. 2012 looks good, but 2013 shows that the Rabbinical new year begins way before the Spring equinox. 2014 looks good, but then 2015 shows that a new moon, while occuring on the same day as the equinox, is a few hours earlier than the equinox, so must be disqualified as being the first new moon of the new year. So 2015 will not begin until April 18, instead of March 21 as the Rabbinical calendar has it.
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when does the new year start according to the Bible?Read More »

Growing up Seventh-day Adventist, i was just always under the impression that “360 is close enough, and it is a good, round number for God to use.” Well, OK, i had bot into that reasoning for a long time, because basically i was too lazy to study it out for myself. Finally tho, thanks to the internet, i have been able to study it out, and am over 90% convinced that the earth originally had 360 days a year, and something happened to mess things up a bit now so that it has approximately 365 days 6 hours a year now.

Here’s a site giving the traditional, scientific reason why the ancients used 360 days to calculate a year (basically because they were too dumb) http://users.hartwick.edu/hartleyc/yeardays.htm while us Seventh-day Adventists basically just say: “Yes, the Bible uses 360day years, so we will calculate the day-for-year principle using 360day years, but just forget the stuff that there is actually 5 more days and some extra time to the real year.”

Here’s an interesting site that tries to show from ancient records of various cultures that calendars have been changed and rearranged many times thru the millenia, showing that there have been many catastrophes affecting the keeping of time: http://www.britam.org/megaliths/velikovskyworlds.html

But this idea that the earth once had 360 days to a year is surprisingly, not at all new. A leading scientist in Isaac Newton’s day, William Whiston, wrote a book in 1696 titled “New Theory of the Earth”, in which he tried to explain Noah’s flood by a huge comet coming to the earth, and that it changed the length of the year from 360 days to its current number of days.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

This seems to be equating 150 days with exactly 5 months, which would entail a month of 30 days.

Daniel 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons:

The word for “time” here is “iddan”: H5732
עִדָּן ‎ ‛iddân
from a root corresponding to a set time; technically a year – time.

So yes, God may have changed the length of the years in the past.

This study started because i’m researching when God’s calendar starts a new year. It has a lot to do with the months. God specifically set up the sun, moon, and stars to be for a purpose:

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Now i surely won’t argue that the sun isn’t doing its job well. It has given some light every single day of my life so far. But i DO have a problem with the moon. In fact, half the time it isn’t doing what it was designed to – to “rule the night”. In fact, there are several nites every month where it absolutely refuses to do anything like it was designed to. Why? Well, i have my theories, but they are just theories. Suffice to say, that probably something drastic happened, like the earth ejecting lots of material during the time of the flood, or some huge impact from a meteor or comet or something which pushed it out of its original orbit around the earth, thus causing it to have a basically 29.5 day cycle now.

signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years The word “signs” here means “omen, warning”, “seasons” means “specific time, particularly a festival, holy convocation, set feast”, and “days” and “years” are self-explanatory. This text is very important for laying the foundation for all calendar study, and also is very informative in showing that the “festivals” are controlled by the luminary bodies.

So what caused the change from 360 days a year to 365+? My best guess is that it has to do with the flood, and the release of pressurized water from inside the earth to an unpressurized state on the surface of the earth, (and probably quite a bit being blown out into space creating meteors and comets). The resultant “larger” earth (look at how many of the continents look like they used to fit together), made for a slower-revolving planet, requiring extra time for it to go around the sun in one year.

None of this explanation touches on the “windows of heaven”, whatever they were. They seem to have been something quite hard that surrounded this world, creating a super-rich oxygen atmosphere, allowing flora and fauna to reach gigantic proportions.

To those who have never heard of the Ica Stones, here is a short introduction: There is perhaps some mention made of them in the 16th century, but they did not get really popularized until a doctor brought them to the world’s attention in the 1930s. The BBC made a documentary on them, praising them, then shortly thereafter, when learning there were things on the stones that openly contradict the established science community’s writings, went back and demolished their original story by saying that some local farmer made them himself. The Peruvian govt. had threatened the farmer with prison for selling old artifacts, but he got out of that by saying that he had forged them all himself. The situation today is that they are “off-limits” for scientists, but attract a following among mostly creationists and gaia mystics.
Here is a good, short introductory video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXv2Z6dinSA

So why are these stones important? Because they show dinosaurs in interaction with humans, thus verifying the biblical account in a big way. Also, they show much evil with killing and sexual perversion, verifying the biblical story and the writings of Ellen White.

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

One of the biggest excuses people use to discredit Ellen White, is that she writes:

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.

Well, these stones show graphically many perversions, but i haven’t seen that one yet. It wouldn’t be surprising at all, and even the possibility of their having advanced medical knowledge to interchange parts like heads etc. between humans and animals seems likely
.
There is also an incredible display of technology including heart and brain transplants, telescopes, the 4 main land masses at that time, some kind of energy source, etc. But mainly it looks to be a collection of humans doing stuff, lots of it having to do with animals.

In many of the carvings there are what appear to be leaves in the humans’ mouths. Anyone with an explanation or guess?

For a good look at the Ica Stones, here are some recommended sites:
http://s8int.com/dinolit25.html
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/peru-tomb-art.htm
http://members.cox.net/icastones/photos.htm

The best YouTube video i’ve seen on this, is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnu6SKRsdfo&feature=watch_response_rev but please notice that over half the movie is showing other “ooparts” like huge, skillfully constructed boulders, giant footprints in rock etc. This is the first video in a 5-part series, and i paused the video, then scrubbed thru frame-by-frame to look carefully at the pics. Many pics are duplicated, but this is the best showcase of the Ica Stones i’ve seen on the net. Please turn down your audio before starting!!

Some interesting observations about the above video:
1:45 Looking at stars thru telescope
2:03 Dinosaur attacking human
2:24, 2:50 Human attacking dinosaur
3:23 Heart transplant
3:58 On left side, 2 men masturbating, and under them, a bestial or sodomy act
4:33 Sodomy
4:45 4 large land masses (Eden?)
5:02 Happy human riding dinosaur?
5:37 Brain surgery
6:05 Big human-dinosaur fight, dinosaur giving live birth

A Creationist scientist – Don Patton – has looked into these stones, and has inspected them carefully, and made a good video (44:30) regarding them. He says that fully “1/3 of the stones depict some of the most disgusting pornography you’ve ever seen.”: http://youtu.be/23_mLCe_yCM

There are ceramic figurines in Acambaro, Mexico, which show essentially the same thing, with the same, expected denial by the scientific establishment.

My conclusion from this exchange, is that the Historicists who cling to an “all-completed” theory for the 7 Seals and 7 Trumpets of Revelation (except for the 7th trumpet), know that they do not have the Biblical support for their position that people who see a future fulfillment do.
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Hello Brother Treiyer,
Recently i found your review of the recent symposium on the trumpets of Revelation held at 3ABN, and being extremely interested in this subject, have made some comments on your review. My comments are in blue. (for this blog post, i put his writing in blockquote, and my writing in normal type.)

SYMPOSIUM ON THE TRUMPETS OF REVELATION
Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer
adventistdistinctivemessages.com
3 ABN February 18-20, 2011

The symposium was organized by 3ABN after the reaction of many viewers to the conference of Pr. Kenneth Cox (a well known retired evangelist who gives seminars on Revelation), based on the trumpets, toward the end of July, 2010. The discomfort of the public had to do with his introduction of a futuristic interpretation of this section of Revelation (he had included Al Qaida in the trumpets).

This is an entirely subjective, extremely negative review of Pr. Cox’s teaching, which may be warranted or not. But usage of the word “discomfort” is unusual, and not fair to the pastor.

There were 3 views, an historicist view, futurist view, and spiritualized view.

This is extremely interesting. I had not heard of the spiritualized view being propounded in modern times by Seventh-day Adventists, but am not surprised, as many Adventists soon after the Great Disappointment spiritualized away the 2nd coming of Jesus. So now we see this error spreading into prophetic interpretation? hmmmm. We must be near the end!

Both futurists and spiritualists cannot offer a clear projection of the prophetic dates specified in the fifth and sixth trumpets.

Br. Treiyer, reading Revelation in order, as written, believing the words to be from God, leads one to the inescapable conclusion that the 7 Trumpets are in the future. This position is affirmed by the facts that: 1. The Trumpets do not sound until the Sealing of the 144,000 is completed. As it is self-evident that the Sealing has not completed as i write this in 2011, we can know without a doubt that the 7 Trumpets have not sounded yet. 2. The 5th Trumpet has locusts only hurting those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. As of 2011, no one in history has had the seal of God in their foreheads, so the 5th Trumpet cannot have possibly happened yet. 3. The last 3 Trumpets are so bad as to be called “woes”, and nothing in history since the flood of Noah has been able to be called a “woe” for the whole world. So we see that the last 3 Trumpets have not been blown yet. Therefore, your whole point here of futurists not offering “a clear projection of the prophetic dates specified in the 5th and 6th trumpets” is clearly not applicable as they are future events.

Since the tenth century, however, many started to realize that the antichrist prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2 and the books of Daniel and Revelation was the bishop of Rome.
This was the classical view of Protestantism from the seventeenth to the nineteenth centuries.

This is the problem, Brother. You rightly reject other methods of interpretation, because a further revealing of the scroll of history makes one rightly reject previous interpretations. This is what us “futurists” are doing, because we see many things written in the prophecies that have not taken place yet, no matter how much force-fitting is performed by the historicists. We see a further unveiling of the scroll, and are moving into line with the unfolding of truth, rather than just accepting ideas because that was the “classical view”. Surely you see this – we must move forward on the path of truth, never throwing away precious truths already revealed, but always open to new insights into the Word of God, especially in regard to the prophecies.
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Alberto Treiyer, historicist scholar at 3abn symposium on trumpets of RevelationRead More »