most influential people in daniel winters’ life


Well, one good thing about the article read yesterday, is that it got me to thinking who are the most influential people in my own life. So while sitting up waiting out one of my weekly or bi-weekly sneezing attacks in the wee hours this morning, i made up this list. Notice that this list does not include any dead people whom i have never personally met. If you would include that group, then Ellen White and the Bible writers would gather all the top spots.

Jesus Christ – everything to me
Mom – taught me to love the truth
Dad – taught me how to live
M – brother, always there for me
Dew – best childhood friend
La – best highschool friend
Alan and David – best college friends
Kawakita – Japanese tutor
Yuki – Japanese friend
Sumiko, Nao – girls i really liked
Hiroko – best friend
Yoshiko – 2nd mom
———————-
updated sep.11
In thinking more about this, i thot of some people whom i have never met personally (or don’t remember), yet thru their writings have had a profound impact on my life.
.
Bible authors – favorites are Moses, David, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Matthew, John, and Paul
Ellen White – inspired prophetess of God
Robert Brinsmead – teacher of the Awakening in the 1960s – still love Australian accents today
Herman Hoehn – proved changes in Spirit of Prophecy (compare first 5 words of 1858 Great Controversy “Spiritual Gifts Volume 1” with the corresponding part in Early Writings)
R.E. McMaster – defined meaning of “money” (= time, energy, and 3rd party’s valuation – must have all 3 to be “money”)

heppenstall most influential?


Another sigh-and-cry abomination for this Sabbath afternoon’s reading.

Today i read the August 2008 Adventist World magazine. There are usually a few uplifting articles, and a few discouraging ones. Sadly enough, usually the higher the writer’s position in the SDA church, the worse they are. Today’s read was no exception.

The article is titled “Help Along the Way” by our president, Jan Paulsen.
This sabbath afternoon i read the August 2008 Adventist World magazine. There are usually a few uplifting articles, and a few discouraging ones. Sadly enough, usually the higher the writer’s position in the SDA church, the worse they are. Today’s read was no exception.

The article is titled “Help Along the Way” by our president, Jan Paulsen.
http://www.adventistworld.org/article.php?id=365
He says the usual – his mother and his elementary school teacher were among the most influential in his life, then he introduces one more person in this category. The man is none other than Edward Heppenstall! This is the man who (as documented below, said:

The old creature or the old man remains with us until the day of our death or the day of Christ’s coming; but as long as we look at Christ the author and the finisher of our faith, sin and self cannot prevail. … The Christian believes that there still remains in the regenerate man a fountain of evil, that sin always exists in the saints till they are divested of their mortal bodies.

Here is Pastor Paulsen’s personal experience with the man:

I remember going to his office one day midway through the term and saying, “Dr. Heppenstall, you have destroyed everything I have believed about the sanctuary and you’ve given me nothing in place of it.” It was probably an arrogant thing for a student to say, and yet it was provoked by honest frustration. He replied, “Jan, remember—the sign of a mature mind is waiting until all the evidence is in.” And he was right. As the term wore on, more started to fit together. Not everything he said I could accept in exactly the way he stated it. But I honor him for the fact that he took his students down difficult paths of study—paths that are necessary for those who wish to function effectively as a minister.

Here was an instructor who “destroyed everything” Jan Paulsen believed about the sanctuary, and yet these paths are “necessary for those who wish to function effectively as a minister”???? OK, but i don’t want to listen to that kind of minister, and certainly will not support them with my tithe!!!

Edward Heppenstall was a very influential man, not only with Pastor Paulsen, but with all the SDA theologians.

http://spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/
archive16-20/18-1bull.pdf

In a survey done in 1985 which tried to define “The Intellectual World of Adventist Theologians”, Edward Heppenstall came out #1in the category of “Most influential SDA writers” – almost double that of the runner-up Ellen White!!! None of the under-39 group considered Ellen White as an “influential writer” – so it is no wonder where we are today in 2008 – with very few pastors who really read and believe Ellen White.

As a side note, it is interesting that of the respondents who had gotten their education from within the SDA educational system – 35% considered the Great Controversy theme as a major theological contribution, while only 11%of those educated outside the SDA system said so….Please notice that Jan Paulsen got some of his education outside of the SDA system, as nearly all the top PhD educators do nowdays.

To read some more reference material about Heppenstall,

promotion of virtue man kills christian daughter

http://www.gulfnews.com/News/Gulf/saudi_arabia/10236558.html
Saudi man kills daughter for converting to Christianity

Riyadh: A Saudi man working with the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice recently killed his daughter for converting to Christianity.

According to sources close to the victim, the religious police member had cut the tongue of the girl and burned her to death following a heated debate on religion.
……
Saudi religious scholars have frequently warned against the dangers of Christian internet websites and satellite TV channels which attract Muslim youngsters to change their religion.
=====================================
Let’s get busier spreading the Good News thru the internet and satellite TV!!!

new software


OK. So i’m here in Johor Bahru with 24/7 wireless access, so i’m getting lazy and also lots of software.

The most incredible find is Truespace 7.6, a fully-featured 3D authoring software. The company has been around a long time, but their products got surpassed by others, and theirs has been relegated to the middle of the pack. Top-end software like Autodesk 3ds max, Cinema 4D, Houdini, and Maya cost 3,000 – 7,000usd. Truespace comes in around 600 dollars, with a slew of products in the 300 and less range. Anyway, this company was bot out by Microsoft this year, and they decided to give away this software – sweet! It has been used professionally in making movies also in the past, so i’m quite confident it can handle what i’m planning (hoping?) to do with a Great Controversy movie.
http://caligari.com/

Another one i snagged yesterday was Blender. This is open-source software, so it has always been free. It is mostly used for drawing in 3D or 2D, and has been used in developing a few movies like Spider Man2, and also for artwork on the History Channel among others.

For an interesting animated movie (the story isn’t too great, but) made all in Blender:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7VzlLtp-4
To get yours:
http://www.blender.org/

I got Cinebench the other day. It is a benchmark program to test out your computer’s graphic abilities:
http://www.maxon.net/pages/download/
cinebench_e.html

By way of comparison, mine got a measly 1,421 points 🙁

Nero gave me big problems in June after a virus infiltration, so i deleted it. To enable cd and dvd writing again, i downloaded what is probably the most popular free burner software – CDBurner XP:
http://cdburnerxp.se/

Then today was the most recent software download – ie8 browser. I’m still not used to tabs, but we’ll see. It has always amused me how many people like to diss everything Microsoft does, but i respect them a lot – and no, i don’t own any stock in them 🙂
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/beta/default.aspx

For a quick round-up of all the other software i’ve downloaded since i bot this Acer Aspire 3054nwxmi in May 2007, is cia world factbook, windows live mail, vlc media player, arachnophilia (to convert rtf files to html), skype, irfanview, html-kit, filzip, FileMenuTools (to clean up right-click context menu), avg anti-virus, e-sword (Bible), Lingoes (translation), Open Office, and Audacity (an audio editor) not to mention a few games – hehe.

who for president?


Not to get too involved with politics, but we, as subject to the rulers, have the responsibility to see that the candidate who will uphold Christian principles the best will be the leader of the people.

For me there is one issue that overrides all others in the current 2008 presidential election. It is the same issue that has been the deciding factor in all the other times i have voted (except for the first time in 1980 when i was feeling my oats!) That is the issue of abortion.

Abortion is murder, pure and simple. God says he forms us in the womb:

Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

He sanctified Jeremiah before he came out of the womb:

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

And of course the greatest miracle of all time – Jesus coming as a human:

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Now what if Mary was living in America in 2008? She might do like over 30 million other mothers have done, and murder their unborn child. Yes, i know, the 30 million fathers are very much at guilt too usually.

This sin is much, much worse than the sin of slavery that ripped apart the United States and plunged us into a war that God told his messenger – Ellen White:

pt: Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald volume#1

God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influences.

At least the slaves had a chance to see the sky. These poor babies don’t even get that opportunity.

Here is a link to an article showing how Obama declined to answer a question put to him about abortion:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/
235/story_23581_2.html

When you asked Obama about when life begins, he punted, saying “It’s above my pay grade.” Should someone running for the highest office in the land have a clear answer to that, or is that kind of ambivalence acceptable?

No. I think he needed to be more specific on that. I happen to disagree with Barack on that. Like I said, he’s a friend. But to me, I would not want to die and get before God one day and go, “Oh, sorry, I didn’t take the time to figure out” because if I was wrong, then it had severe implications for my leadership if I had the ability to do something about it. He should either say, “No, scientifically, I do not believe it’s a human being until X” or whatever it is or say, “Yes, I believe it is a human being at X point,” whether it’s conception or anything else. But to just say “I don’t know” on the most divisive issue in America is not a clear enough answer for me.

If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal—in other word in Psalm 139 God says “I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,” if they believe that’s literally true, then they can’t just walk away from that. They can add other issues, but they can’t walk away from the belief that at conception God planned that child and to abort it would be to short circuit the purpose.

This site says that Obama has promised to make allowing abortion a top-priority for his administration:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/
08061010.html

The first thing I’d do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act,” Obama said in his July speech to abortion advocates worried about the increase of pro-life legislation at the state level.

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) is legislation Obama has co-sponsored along with 18 other senators that would annihilate every single state law limiting or regulating abortion, including the federal ban on partial birth abortion.

The 2007 version of FOCA proposed: “It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.”

Obama made his remarks in a question-and-answer session after delivering a speech crystallizing for abortion advocates his deep-seated abortion philosophy and his belief that federal legislation will break pro-life resistance and end the national debate on abortion. (see transcript: http://lauraetch.googlepages.com/barackobamabefore
plannedparenthoodaction
)….
Besides making abortion on demand a “fundamental right” throughout the United States, FOCA would effectively nullify informed consent laws, waiting periods, health safety regulations for abortion clinics, etc.

How about McCain?
From his website he says:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/
95b18512-d5b6-456e-90a2-12028d71df58.htm

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion. ….”At its core, abortion is a human tragedy. To effect meaningful change, we must engage the debate at a human level.”

blending compromise


The following is from the Pacific Union Recorder about the retirement of the Southeast California Conference president back in i believe 2004. Notice how nothing is said about the truth or Jesus, just that this president’s solutions “have not split the church”. Sure doesn’t sound like Jesus’ way of doing things. Notice too that men and women pastors carry the same credential. Who will speak up to stop this blasphemy?

http://www.pacificunionrecorder.com/104/5/18444.html
Several hot topics in Southeastern could have erupted like volcanoes elsewhere. Strong opinions swirled around churches that adopted contemporary music and worship styles, a request to establish a Black conference, the debate on women’s ordination, and selling San Pasqual Academy, the conference’s only boarding school.

Solutions—arrived at through a process of inclusiveness and discussion—are a blend of compromise and creativity. “They don’t satisfy everybody, but they have not split the church,” one administrator pointed out.

Today, a broad spectrum of worship styles coexist in SECC. Men and women pastors carry the same credential, identifying them as “ordained-commissioned.” The conference executive committee voted to support churches that preferred to become a Black conference (though the proposal was later rejected by the Pacific Union Conference as a whole). And several million dollars from the San Pasqual sale have been turned into endowments that will benefit schools for decades to come.

adventist extraordinary tithe compromise


http://news.adventist.org/data/2008/1207597266/index.html.en
“Not only have tithes and offerings increased,” Lemon said, “but the church was blessed to receive a multimillion dollar ‘extraordinary tithe.’ Lemon’s April 6 financial report at the church’s spring business meeting reflected about half of that extraordinary tithe, which was first announced at the church’s fall 2007 business meeting.
….
Finance officers also addressed the church’s investments in light of the fluctuating market. Commenting specifically on the church’s retirement funds, world church associate treasurer Roy Ryan said because the church’s holdings are long-term, diversified and conservative, risks are “manageable.”

Given the volatile markets, “no one is expecting a robust financial year in 2008,” Ryan added, “but the strength of international and emerging markets are encouraging to United States-based investors.”
================================
What is this “extraordianry tithe” thing? If just a one-time large amount – very good….

How can anyone possibly donate funds to the Seventh-day Adventist church knowing that they are doing this with the funds? Can you just imagine at all Jesus calling his disciples together and saying “The risk to our money-bag is ‘manageable’. Sure am glad we have some funds invested in Roman gold. Judas, you might want to look into investing in emerging European economies.” ???

I do remember around 20 years ago seeing that some SDA church funds were invested in Wendy’s Hamburgers!
================================

http://news.adventist.org/data/2007/1192473066/index.html.en
Lemon also presented a special report on an extraordinary amount of tithe the church’s world headquarters received earlier this year. Council delegates voted to receive it and have it used for the church’s worldwide work.
….
“We have consulted with many on this issue and we want it clearly understood that there is no change in our position that tithe … should be turned into the local conference through the local church,” Lemon said.

“It would have to be an extraordinary amount for us to consider this again.”
================================
Aah, now we see what this “extraordinary tithe” thing is. Someone sold off some multinational company for many millions of dollars, and gave 10% to the church. Since the amount was so large, they gave it directly to the General Conference. Now the rules the GC officials themselves have made, state that all tithes must go thru the local church. Notice how easily these men are bot off – “It would have to be an extraordinary amount for us to consider this again”. Satan must be laughing as he sees God’s church’s leaders so easily sell their rules and/or priniciples for extra zeroes in a bank account. What a farce.
————
Update September 6.
http://www.adventistworld.org/article.php?id=249
Finally i found the quote i knew i had read in some Adventist World magazine about this issue, it is by president Jan Paulsen telling us that this extraordinary tithe is “funds that were given very specifically for the mission work of the church.” This is not just a farce of the church-generated rules, this is a slap in the face of God that we would allow someone to SPECIFY where their TITHE monies go. President Paulsen, what about the 3 dollars and 50 cents of tithe given by the illegal immigrant? Can they come to the GC headquarters and hand it over to the financial officers and SPECIFY where they want it to go? Repent.

sigh and cry


This is something you absolutely must do if you wish to receive the mark of God in your forehead (and thus not receive the mark of the beast in your forehead).

Ezekiel 9:4
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Jerusalem represents the people of God, and perhaps more closely interpreted, would be the absolute heart of the work – ie: Where the leaders of God’s people are. The Mark itself may also have some kind of outward manifestation, but that is unlikely. It is mostly referring to a “settling into the truth”.

Now notice WHERE the people who receive the mark are, and WHAT they are doing.
Are they outside of Jerusalem? In Egypt or Rome? No, they are all INSIDE Jerusalem. This is the most powerful point that has kept me inside the Seventh-day Adventist church all these years. Even when the church looks to be all headed to hell in apostasy, i know that to receive the mark of God, i must be INSIDE this church.

WHAT are the people doing who receive the mark? Are they excusing wrongs among God’s people? Are they compromising with the world? Maybe they are not even going along with the wickedness in the church, but maybe just keeping their mouths shut? NO! They are “sighing and crying”. About what? This is the most controversial part of the whole “sighing and crying” interpretation.

Some people just plain like to complain about everything. They are happiest when complaining. This is because of the “root of bitterness” which they have not allowed Jesus Christ to dig up and throw out of their hearts. If you don’t see exactly like them in everything – “You’re Lost!”. This type of “sigher and crier” gives a bad name to the whole group – of course making Satan happy.

Some people refuse to say anything bad about anyone’s sins. But these people haven’t a shred of support from Ezekiel 9 for their position, and they know it. They try to make up for the deficieny of inspired support in Ezekiel 9 by quoting unrelated Bible texts saying we should “love” and “be kind” and “don’t gossip” and “don’t judge” etc. etc. These texts tho must be understood to not negate what Ezekiel 9 so clearly says. As always, the Bible must be read in context. Otherwise, you start baptising for the dead, and believing that Satan will be in heaven (because all who believe are saved, and Satan believes!).

So the proper heart attitude must be present to “sigh and cry” in the manner that God wants so as to receive the mark in your forehead. We must not be haughty, “holier than thou”, or gleeful when we point out the sins in the church. The whole purpose of this is to wake up people, to show them their sins, so that they will repent and come to God, so that God will have a clean church when he returns. Of course the sighing and crying helps cleanse our own hearts too.

Hopefully in the future i will be able to post some things in our beloved Seventh-day Adventist church that make one “sigh and cry”.

Following are some Spirit of Prophecy quotes by Ellen White about “sighing and crying”. We must all be doing it. Get ready! Get ready! Get ready!

cosmic conflict movie


Amazing Facts has been working on a “Great Controversy” movie for some time. I have had contact with the producer, and he said he estimated the movie would cost around 1.5million usd and come in around fall 2007. The project looks to be getting near completion:
http://www.cosmicconflictproject.com/

Yes, i have some thots about this….. But please, look at the site yourself first. There are 7 stills from the movie up for viewing as i write this.

So you’re back? What do you think?
What i think?….. The Good Shepherd is excellent. The Road to Jerusalem is very good. The Heavenly City is interesting. The others have problems ranging from style to doctrinal.
Sure hope they make it faithful to the inspired word we have in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, but that is very doubtful if these stills are any indication. Doug Batchelor, are you looking at what your team there is spending the money entrusted on?

30 seconds a week


That’s what one professional animator does.
I guess that is working 40 hours in that week.
That man, on the side, makes personal animations at the clip of 1 minute a month.

The guy who made “We are the Strange” movie by himself, working basically full time on his project (3D), said he averaged 3.85 minutes per month. That is completed, finished, viewable product. Of course this involves story-boarding, animatrics, key frames and other things that i’m just now learning about.

No wonder most animations are short. This is a long, hard, patience-breaking work.

Saw a thing about the DVD “Angel Wars”, and sure don’t want to make that company’s mistake – corupting the original storyline. It would be better to never tell a Bible story, than to tell it untruthfully. Sad to see too, that the comments on Amazon are favorable for it, for its “quality” (read Hollywood quality).

selling tamil great controversy books


Went to a Tamil-speaking campmeeting this weekend, and was able to sell, by God’s grace, 57 newly-printed 1858 edition Tamil The Great Controversy Between Christ and His Angels, and Satan and His Angels books 🙂 Yes, of course the pastor and i were hoping for many more, but like he said, this is like a ripple in a pond. When the books get read, and the people get excited to share them with others, they will tell this one and that one and these precious words from God WILL be spread widely.

You’ve got to start somewhere.

Now if they could just change the dance-party atmosphere to something nice where God’s angels wouldn’t have to leave….

start your engines!


Wondered why i haven’t heard anything about global warming recently, and saw this report:
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+
Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

Here is a quote: “All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA’s GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to wipe out most of the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year’s time. For all four sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.”

million dollar movie


A couple of weeks ago i went up to Kuala Lumpur and met a man who owns an animation studio. That studio makes animated TV shows for various countries, and other design and art work. At that time i did not ask him the actual cost of producing a full-length animated movie, as i (and he) knew i don’t have the money for it, plus he steered the conversation more towards drawing stills first for a manga instead of launching full-body into a movie, which is wise i think. But a friend asked me how much it would cost to make, so i asked him the other day. Here is his reply today:

(Here are) the estimates. I’m calculating based on a 90-minute animation special to be produced for TV or direct-to-video quality. The breakdown is as follows:

  • Animation pre-production, production and post: RM3,219,681.00
  • Music, Voice talents, Sound effects: RM200,000.00
  • Total: RM3,419,681.00
  • The animation pre-production includes all aspects of character design, models, props and background designs, story editing, storyboarding, and animatics (animated board to gauge timing sequence).

    Animation production include all aspects of animation from key poses, in-betweening, pencil linetest for approval, cleaning up, painting, and compositing with background.

    Post production include compositing, visual effects and final transfer to desired media – digital master tape (digibeta), DVD, web streaming, etc.

    All the above is done at Ixxxx. For the music, voice recording, sound effects, mixing and all other sound related sessions will be performed by a third party but under the supervision of our producers.

    We will set milestones and review stages for approval from pre till final delivery so that you can be sure that everything works according to plan. We will discuss about this in details later.

    Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need additional information or if you have any questions.

    (for calculation sake, RM3,419,681.00 = 1,013,212usd)

    ernie knoll’s dreams


    The following is regarding dreams of Ernie Knoll. Ernie Knoll is a life-long Seventh-day Adventist, an elder in the church, and has been having dreams. Some say the dreams are from God, some say from the Devil.

    This is my take on the situation, after reading what one man on the internet said in favor of the dreams, and what Pastor Steve Wohlberg and Eugene Prewitt have said against the dreams.

    Please note, I have NOT read any of the dreams. So all i know about this, is what has been quoted by others. I don’t know why, but somehow i’m not moved to go and read the dreams for myself. Perhaps in this way, i can be more of a neutral "judge". What i have written is in black, Steve Wohlberg’s quotes are in blue, and Eugene Prewitt’s are in green. What Ernie Knoll wrote is within quotes and purple. (i do hope he has been quoted correctly).

    In the dreams, an angel is usually present who identifies himself as "the Herald".

    From Steve Wohlberg’s observations:
    ——————————-
    He also states that some have counseled him to test the Herald with 1 John 4:3. Ernie wrote:
    "Knowing that an angel of Satan can only answer that Jesus did not come in the flesh, if the Herald stated this, it would prove that he is an agent of Satan and is trying to deceive many. However, if the Herald answered that Jesus did come in the flesh, then that would mean I am not being deceived."

    How do we know for certain that Satan’s angels cannot make such a confession? And even if the Herald does make a true confession, does this really “prove” that he is of God and that Ernie has not been deceived?

    Ernie Knoll is also quoted as writing:"I watched as it was decided that Jesus would come to Earth as a created Being." This is a problem, as Jesus is never said to be "created" in inspired writings.

    Amen, Pastor. This is a yellow flag for sure.

    …the Herald then begins to rebuke those who have opposed his "messages":
    "The Herald now steps back and walks to the middle of the room. He holds out the three glass tablets as one tablet and says, “This is a message for all who will accept and be willing to hear.” The tablet says, “Let he that rides dismount and prostrate before the Lord of hosts, the Creator of the universe, He who came to be the created. Bow before your Master and confess your sins so all will hear of your rebellion. A message was sent to a chosen messenger and you denied your Lord’s ear and convinced others to turn away."
    —————————-
    All the above seem to me to be legitimate concerns about whether or not the dreams are from God. However, Pastor Wohlberg also raises questions about the source of the dreams by panning remarks that directly rebuke him, which is NOT any reason at all to reject the dreams.

    He disparages the source of the dreams because they talk against Ethel Price and Ed Reid, both of whom Steve Wohlberg respects, especially Ed Reid. Pastor, have you never read of what Ellen White wrote about George Butler and Uriah Smith? These were high-up leaders in the SDA church, much higher and much more revered by the lay members than any of you three, yet the Holy Spirit gave scathing rebukes, pointing out their open and secret sins.