After 4 weeks with still no contact at all from David Gates, the man who personally invited me to come volunteer at Gospel Ministries International, i sent him a email requesting information. He said i could call him, which i did just a little over an hour ago.
We talked for around 10 minutes, and the first half was cordial. His problem with what i had done was said to be with the posting of his replies to my emails which can be seen on the “Converging Crises Review” blog post. He believes they should be confidential, like this telephone call today, while i do not. Also, i do not believe his problem is really with his replies being posted, but with the content of my review pointing out problems in his sermon, as that is what Jon Wood was writing against in his first email to me about this.
When we are offended personally, or someone has done something bad just to ourselves, then of course, we follow the Matthew 18 counsel, and take it to them privately. However, the errors espoused in the Converging Crises sermon are open to the whole world. They have been spread by dvd, by youtube, by all the methods commonly available. So, to meet the error, the warning against it must be just as wide.
Written by Ellen White, in Notebook Leaflets:
When men endanger the work and cause of God by their own wrong course of action, shall they hear no voice of reproof? If the wrongdoer only were concerned, and the work reached no farther than him, he alone should have the words of warning; but when his course of action is doing positive harm to the cause of truth, and souls are imperiled, God requires that the warning be as broad as the injury done.
I read this paragraph to him, but there was no direct response.
Does my personal expulsion from GMI fit into this? – only as it shows that there are serious spiritual problems there with the leaders. About 7 minutes into the call, it was obvious that there was no hint of admitting of wrong-doing, and i said: “Please repent”. This created quite a firestorm, with a flurry of words explaining to me what a great work he is doing, and how you cannot condemn someone who has done 90% or more good things, and how many orphanages are being run, and how i cannot be the Holy Spirit for someone else (?!), how i’ve hurt other men of God (probably referring to Jeff Reich) and and and. Over the last 3 minutes of the call i probably repeated these 2 words 10 times, and then closed with a “good bye”.
This showed clearly the main reason why God led me here – to lift up my voice against sin. In the 5 months i’ve been back in America (longest in 12 years) i’m struck again and again by the arrogance of us Seventh-day Adventists, and the refusal to call sin by its right name. I believe this is why the Lord is allowing us to go off into all these errors, like conspiracy theories, unconditional love, don’t judge, etc. We don’t like it when we are told we have sin. Believe me, it isn’t pleasant for the reprover either! I would much rather just smile and say “that’s good, that’s nice” rather than do such an unpleasant task, but then, i wouldn’t be faithful to God, would i? Why should the stones get the glory of doing the work that God gave me to do, because he says even the stones will cry out if we don’t cry out against sin?
Testimonies to the Church #21:
But, as an ambassador of Christ, you are required to be faithful, to correct wrong in love, and meekness, and your efforts will not prove unavailing.
Soon after the telephone call ended, my thots were:
1. Luke 12:3 “Because whatever you said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you spoke to the ear in private rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops.
2. The pope is probably around 90% right too, and he is in charge of thousands of orphanages, so should we stop pointing out his sins?
After sleeping on this overnite, i have this to add:
SPTA12, A Message to Our Physicians:
A man standing in the high position of a leader, and yet setting an example of wrong-doing, advancing principles that God repudiates, will be taken in the snare of Satan. He may say wonderful things. He may visit the sick, help the poor, and go through the entire list of activities, and yet never bring honor to God.
When the ambitious leader empties himself of self-glory, when he repents and confesses his sins, when he brings himself into subordination, then there will be hope of him. Until he gains this experience, the Lord has no use for him. Self must die. The character that he has been forming for years must be changed; for his own purpose has been to gain his own way and carry out his own purposes.
Brother David, there is hope for you – please repent.
Man-o-man, are you ever in hot water, Danny, my friend.
You’re the one who lit the fire as you took from his public sermon quotes (I saw no quoting from private emails) and analyzed them in your blog here. Nothing new… I can lead you to others who have blogged their negative view of what other leaders have put into public media. But it is really a bit cheeky to work for the guy on one of his organizations while at the same time blasting him in a public blog. That takes the cake! So it is logical that you get the boot.
I do not know the will of God for you. If you are claiming to be called of God to expose leadership wrongs then who am I to oppose? If you weren’t looking so skinny-weak cartoon character like, they might accept you as some sort of authority. What I do know is that to command to anyone who is in authority over your own church ministry stand (as the status of David Gates is within the SDA’s to your stand) that he is to repent …is…hmmm…..super-super cheeky.
If you only had connections to someone in authority over him, and bonded together so that that person would agree with you to see the necessity to advise Gates to quit the political world/USA conspiracy theories and economics gloom/doom forecast, but just stay with the rest of his message, you’d be more effective. But all of any independent minister doing a solo ministry that is not under the auspices of Maryland GC (like yourself and Gates) wiggles away easily from anyone trying to push them into a mold.
I have no left or right standing on this issue. I’m going to sit up high in the bleachers and see how all develops further.
Amazing. All this because you think there shouldn’t be preaching about conspiracy theories? Are you SDA? How can an SDA who has read the Great Controversy believe there are no conspiracies afoot? No hidden agenda? Incredible. And you think if someone else believes there is a conspiracy to enslave us and then preaches about it, that is sin? Beyond belief.
Agape, just because one works for a ministry, it does not mean that they have to accept and be silence in regards to unbiblical things being done. That base reasoning does not apply in any corner of God’s Israel. God’s word instead charges us to denounce public sins publicly and if Gates refused to take this opportunity to indeed “repent”, i.e., actually solely confess and abandon the self-admitted and claimed “10%” of wrong that he is persisting in, then that only demonstrates what false spirit he is of.
Funny how Gates always preaches against being content with anything less than 100% purity as his common ‘drop of spit in a bottle of water’ tries to demonstrate, obviously that standard does not apply for him.
“Bleacher-bums” and Fence-sitter, such as admittedly yourself Agape, will only fall under the same delusions and falsehood that the preachers of error will (2 Thess 2:11). The fundamental error with David Gates is that he refuses to heed the counsel of the SOP warning against the seeking to obtain a revival through wrong motives and date setting, let alone spurious teachings. Neither the Bible nor the SOP say that any final event will begin when the U.S. economy collapses.
Daniel has done the Biblical thing in calling sin by its name and correspondingly reproving it as due, and along these lines, he staunchly stands with the many that God says He approves of. Great SOP quotes in your post Daniel. God Bless!
“In order to reach those who are in the darkness of error and false theories, we must approach them with utmost caution and with the greatest wisdom, agreeing with them on every point that we can conscientiously.” (EGW, 3T p 462)
A big smile from me, your up high in the bleacher’s bum sitting on the fence buddy 🙂 🙂
I wasn’t expecting much of a Biblical, nor cogent reply from you Agape, so I am equally neither shocked nor impressed. You clearly prefer to obliviously and mindlessly, pridefully defend your completely unbiblical stance. You are way too predictable! Jesus had a specific characteristic term for this attitude (See Matt 23:17)!!
a) As an SDA, David Gates has the clear cut option to heed the light which he fully is, especially by now, aware of, or continue to reject it. (Matt 18:15-18). So I see no due necessity to ‘treat him with white gloves.’ Rather only the Neh 13:25 treatment.
b) I do not even begin to make head or tails of your “bleacher bum” projectionist comment. However, like any fooled and intoxicated “bleacher bum” you are confusing those who are actually on the playing field with your, self-described/confessed, fence-sitting self. Can’t help you much here until you at least sober up! (2 Thess 2:11 = Rev 17:2ff). Indeed “passively and indifferently” accepting Gates teaching that Final Events will be caused by an economic crisis is, biblically, just being drunk with wine of Revelation’s Babylon and will only lead to the receiving of her judgements and plagues!! (Rev 18:5ff)
And… In all seriousness. I Biblically do not consider myself ‘your “buddy.”’ (Amos 3:3) Find someone else for your, effectively, ‘drinking buddy’! (Psa 1:1, 2) Last thing I care about are “moronically” “indifferent” and “lukewarm” SDA’s! It just does not get worst than that (Rev 3:9, 15, 16).
NJK Project
New International Version (©1984)
Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers,
edited by webmaster: There were 16 other versions of the same text in the original comment.
Winelfred, When we see error being preached, should we stay silent? I understand very well the need to be very respectful and treat an elder with extra love and caution, but they still must be rebuked when preaching error.
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Have you read where Jesus rebuked the elders in his day? In fact, he called them “blind” in one place, and “vipers” in an other.
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Let’s expose error, with all brotherly love and care, being careful that we do not fall into Satan’s traps on either side of the narrow pathway 🙂