should the bride teach the bridegroom?

There is a very interesting discussion going on commenting on recent General Conference action to consider allowing commissioned ministers to be conference presidents. Quite unsurprisingly, it was brought up by the North American and European divisions. Why “unsurprisingly”? – because this motion is another step in having women be just like men in the church in positions of authority and responsibility. The world church still does not allow women to be ordained ministers (but does allow ordained elders!?), so nearly all of the current “commissioned ministers” are women according to my understanding.

Praise God, this motion was defeated.
Adventist news

It is very encouraging to see around 1/2 the comments stand for the Word of God as revealed in 1Tim 2:12 “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” and 1Cor 14:34 ” the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.”

To those who would say that “Ellen White would be disqualified if we followed the Bible today”, the Bible teaches in ICor 11:5 ” But any woman who prays or prophesies…” that it is perfectly fine for a woman to pray and prophesy – but no where does it say a woman should get up in front of men and teach them. There are absolutely no examples given of that in the Bible.

One explanation is clearly seen in how Jesus considers his church (see Ephesians 5). He is the bridegroom, and we are the bride. Would it be a proper thing for his bride to start teaching him? When we say we are more “enlightened” than God, so now we will have women to rule over us, aren’t we in fact lessening the authority and sacredness of our lovely Saviour – Jesus Christ?

Sad to say, we Seventh-day Adventists want to be just like the world as much as possible, so we elect women to be leaders over us. It is not surprising when those women elected leaders want to have the same privileges for all women as men currently have.

Please understand i believe very strongly that this injunction against women teaching in the churces is not applicable when there are no men in the church, or when the men refuse their God-given responsibility. The strongest sermon i’ve heard live all year was by a woman lay-member at the Kobe church. But when there are men present, they are the ones who should be doing the teaching. That is God’s given instruction for proper order in the church.

The reason this subject hit me hard when reading it today, is that i did not attend the Kobe church last Sabbath, because a woman was scheduled to preach. I told my reasons to one church elder, and she said that part of the Bible was “old”, then told another SDA member who said i was “sexist”. The pastor just sent me a reply yesterday, saying basically that it was a “cultural thing in Paul’s day”, plus “it would throw many women out of work today who are already teachers and pastors in our churches”.

No, it is not surprising, as i know these type of excuses to disobey the Word of God are prevelant. It is still sad tho to meet face to face. I told them that if the Bible shows different, please inform me so i can fall into line. But otherwise, i would rather keep the Bible sayings and injunctions rather than disobey by calling parts of the Bible “old”, or calling God “sexist”, or worrying about how someone would lose their job for obeying Jesus. Another thing that is troubling about the pastor’s remarks (and please understand, he is the strongest/most conservative pastor i’ve seen among currently-SDA-employed pastors in Japan), is that he is saying some of the exact same words people will use in the Time of Trouble to urge us to not be so strict about keeping the Sabbath of the Lord.

Shouldn’t obeying God’s word be uppermost in our decision-making?

4 thoughts on “should the bride teach the bridegroom?”

  1. I agree on this about women’ role in church. I am in agreement with what Paul referred about women being silent in the church. And this post has a more correct heading “should the bride teach the bridegroom? ”
    Genesis 3:16 ” …. he shall rule over thee ”
    BTW, i am not trying to discriminate in any ways between men & women. Only that both have their own roles …

    Kiran

  2. This problem has taken a very serious turn, as the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to disregard the vote of the world church.
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    This issue has been boiling for quite a few years, and now is boiling over.
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    Here’s a study theology of ordination article:
    http://news.adventist.org/2011/10/process-timetable-un.html
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    Here’s an article on how NAD requested a variance at the world autumn council to allow non-ordained people (women) to become union and conference presidents. Please read the comments. There are many people standing up for the straight word of God, and of course there are a vocal few that say “well, but….”.
    http://news.adventist.org/2011/10/variance-for-north-a.html
    .
    Just a week or so after NAD’s request was shot down by the world church, they brazenly went ahead and approved it anyway for their own division! So now they are going against God, AND against the world church.
    http://news.adventist.org/2011/11/north-american-adven.html
    .
    This is an extremely serious problem, one that if left unattended to will split the SDA church. Br. Ted Wilson knows that, and in his sermon in Tokyo last Sabbath, mentioned that he was facing a “big internal church problem that i don’t know how to handle”. Most likely it was about this issue.
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    The underlying problem is that many people in the church do not believe the words in the Bible are from God, so we are free to choose and interpret according to our culture and customs. This has wrecked many a church before, and is seriously threatening God’s last remnant church now.
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    Sure, women can and are used of God. The Bible is clear tho that they should not be teaching in the church. What are all the reasons? I don’t know, but i do know that women being in authority over a man is against God’s design, as that shows that we humans are above Jesus (please consider the bride and bridegroom analogy).

  3. I do wonder if both ‘sides’ of the issue have it all backwards. Even assuming the Bible prescribes gender-restricted roles, don’t the oft-cited proof texts concerning older men who are ‘the husband of one wife, having faithful children’ (Tit 1:5-9; 1 Tim 3:1-7; 1 Pet 5:1-5) apply to the selection of elders – not clergy? By contrast, aren’t the vocations of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher all spiritual gifts (Eph 4:11) bestowed by the Holy Spirit?

    Whilst celibate Paul and young Timothy were clearly ministers, where they elders – and if so how, given Paul’s own stated selection criteria? Wasn’t Matthias chosen by lots (the Greek origin of the word ‘clergy’) precisely to emphasise that God, not men, ultimately decides? Doesn’t Ellen White’s own life reflect this distinction, given she was never in a position of formal administrative leadership (unlike her husband James) but she was nonetheless clearly a licensed minister bestowed by the Holy Spirit with all five spiritual gifts?

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