69 the first to comment

mygif
6249. hopefulone said in February 8th, 2012

Hi Daniel i emailed amazing facts about doug batchalors view on the 7 trumpets and i got the company line about the historical view point.

http://www.theupperroomministry.com/

click on -> J.Reynolds Hoffman

Go to sermon 56 about 7 trumpets.

Excellent sermon about future application.

mygif
6629. Colten said in April 20th, 2012

I never read all the comments but if no one mentioned this than I guess I will be the first…we live in the anti typical day of atonement…in October 22 1844 Jesus went from the Holy place to the Most Holy place…as Adventists we know this quite clear…concerning the trumpets. Revelation 8:3-5 mentions the altar of incense. This was an article in the Holy place…John is looking at scenes within the time frame of the Holy place(31-1844) based on this…i would say that the historical account is quite accurate. Especially since Josiah Litch rightfully predicted the fall of the Ottoman empire…and if the 7 trumpets are in the future that means the 7 seals and churches are in the future. which is not the case at all. They are all complimentary to e achother. May God bless our studies…remember our foundations…do not be received by false new reaching. God bless.

mygif
6634. daniel said in April 20th, 2012

Thank you for your observations Colten.
.
Yes, this has been pointed out before. It is also clear from the Bible that the 7 Trumpets cannot have possibly started sounding yet, as none of the 144,000 have been sealed.
.
The historical position was God’s plan to bring the people up to the point of time of October 22, 1844. If we stop there, we are in danger of not advancing in the light.
.
Please read my former comment about Josiah Litch also – he recanted his position later, and now many scholars are showing that nothing of importance happened on that day that he predicted.
.
Your advice to remember our foundations is very well taken. May we continue up the narrow way 🙂

mygif
6636. Colten said in April 20th, 2012

I do not see how the 144000 are sealed before the seven trumpets…are you reffering to Revelation 7. If that is so do you not believe that the book of revelation is not in chronological order? If that’s what you believe then, that means Rev12 has not happened yet which is not the case. Please clarify…I’m sort of glad that there is an Adventist site to talk about the Bible.

mygif
6639. Colten said in April 21st, 2012

Happy Sabbath

mygif
6640. Colten said in April 21st, 2012

I just remembered…Futurism and Preterism were introduced during the reformation to try and disprove the teaching that the antichrist is the Papacy. To believe in futurism or preterism is following Catholic teaching. Treading on dangerous ground.

mygif
6642. daniel said in April 22nd, 2012

Hello Colten,
Rev. 7 1-3 “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
.
The angels are commanded not to hurt the sea, earth, or any tree until the sealing of the 144,000 is past. When do they start hurting the sea, earth, and trees? Read carefully starting in chapter 7 and going all the way thru chapter 8.

mygif
6643. daniel said in April 22nd, 2012

Two weeks ago my cousin went to a talk given by Pastor John Lomacang. After the talk, she quietly asked him privately about his views on the 7 Trumpets.
.
Quoting her email:
“Then since there weren’t any other people around for the moment I asked
him if his presentation of several years ago on the trumpets could be
obtained. He hesitated a moment and then let loose. I wish my short
term memory was better to remember all he said, but he still holds to
his view that the 7 trumpets are in the future – possibly the very near
future – but still the future. He stated that Uriah Smith’s
interpretation, which he got from a Scottish minister, was wrong. He is
frustrated (he didn’t use that word, but that is what it boils down to)
with the ‘brethren’ because they don’t want to admit their mistake.
And the age old excuse that they are afraid of confusing people. He
said he has studied this subject for 20 years. He said after the
symposium Kennith Cox spoke with him and is frustrated (again my word)
too. Lomacang has gone so far in his studies as to contact the Turkish
government to obtain dates of when significant things happened in
Turkish history which prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Smith’s
interpretation is wrong. I told him I had been surprised when I read
the 3ABN article on the symposium last year which indicated that all in
attendance came away with a full endorsement of the age old Uriah Smith
interpretation. He indicated that really the article had done a play on
words indicating the church still takes a historicist view of prophecy
vs futurist but something to the effect that many of our theologians
look at historical and current events in light of prophecy. I know,
what I wrote sounds the same but he did make a distinction. I wish I
still had the article. I think I threw it away.”

mygif
6649. Colten said in April 24th, 2012

According to you, at least what I got out of it, is that when the angel says to hurt not the sea and the earth…u r saying that it is referring to the trumpets when it mentions the sea and mountains and trees, correct? And also what I gather is that you are saying the trumpets happen after the seven seals? When u answer this I might have a few more questions.

mygif
6655. daniel said in April 24th, 2012

Well, Colten, it is a bit different. The sealing angel says not to hurt the sea or the earth, then in continue to read the Bible, we find soon after where the sea and earth ARE hurt. So i believe the connection is very clear.
.
The consecutive order of the seals and trumpets looks to be very clear also, but i admit that the 6th seal looks on the surface to be the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
.
I’m still studying these things out too 🙂

mygif
6659. Colten said in April 25th, 2012

Egw in the great controversy uses the sixth seal in explaining the second coming.

mygif
6662. daniel said in April 27th, 2012

Yes, however, we must remember that many prophecies have dual or more fulfillments. William Miller understood this and wrote up 13 Rules of Interpretation. While probably not inspired, they look to be very useful.
.
Especially notice #13:
To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfilment of a prophecy. If you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event. But if one word lacks a fulfilment, then you must look for another event, or wait its future development. For God takes care that history and prophecy doth agree, so that the true believing children of God may never be ashamed.
.
So this is one big weight of evidence in favor of the 7 Trumpets being yet future, because no one has ever heard of fire with hail burning up 1/3 of all the trees etc.
.
How does this relate to the 6th Seal? I don’t know.

mygif
6668. Colten said in April 29th, 2012

But is Revelation a very symbolical book…no literal beast is going to arise out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns…it is clear that it is talking about the papacy…and so why would the seven trumpets not be symbolical…in the Bible trumpets are symbolic of war, trees and grass represent people…so why take a literal approach to a symbolic thing?

mygif
7335. Stan McCluskey said in January 20th, 2013

The context shows both the seal events and trumpet events to be in the end-time. This is well supported by Ellen White.

Read my 30 page Bible & EGW supported study:
The Testing, Sealing & Shaking Times of Rev 6-11

https://sites.google.com/site/jstanmc/

mygif
7772. RFern said in April 28th, 2013

My brothers and sisters,
If I could add a thought for your consideration… I have watched this tug-o-war for the trumpets for many years and wondered if both sides could not be right. Sometimes the spirit of the world that teaches us that one must only be right will blind us to a third possibility.
While studying Messianic prophesies in the minor prophets I was struck by the prophesies of The Day of the Lord, and these prophets were mainly thinking it was the first coming of the messiah, yet didn’t sometimes realize that these same prophesies will repeat for his second coming. Type and antitype.
Look also at the 7 churches of revelation: 7 churches in Asia at the time of John, and also 7 periods of church history. But if you leave it there, you rob it of any significance for our time. Remember what Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:11, that the things that happenned to the people of old, happenned as ensamples (types) for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Imagine how much we’d loose if we thought the travail of Israel was just history. The 7 church are still seven types of people today, and unless we come out of the Laodicean state and become Smyrna (willing to be a Martyr) or Phyladelphia (willing to die and yet perseverant to the end, even to translation), we cannot be saved.
So here is my proposition: The 7 trumpets being a warning of times in history has much research. But why not allow that they will sound again? That at the end of time, as God is giving a last warning to his people He will sound his trumpet (as He said several times that He would do in the OT). A repeated, maybe even more literal, fast pace repeat crescendo…
I had not heard much from our church on this, and I understand our penchant to be cautious on future events. We learned from Miller not to get egg on our faces. But was very surprised to see this month an announcement on the flyer for a Pacific Press book called Trumpet after Trumpet by Erwin R. Gane. Has a lot of research for this dual interpretation.
And if your visual, I leave you with this picture: Jesus, we know has entered the sanctuary in history, after the cross… ministering first in the Holy, then after 1844 in the Most Holy Place. If you plot the events in History into the sanctuary, you’ll see the trumpets plotted into the Holy Place. But when He leaves, on His
way out, He will be passing all those things again. Could it be that all those, seals, trumpets and bowls might once again coincide to create a time of trouble for the earth that no one can imagine? Let us pray that the Holy Spirit may open our understanding as well as prepare us to stand fast ‘under the shadow of the Almighty.’ Maranatha!

mygif
7931. james pinney said in June 23rd, 2013

25 years ago I was given a book “warning revelation is about to be fulfilled” by a fellow Seventh day Adventist that changed my life. if you want a very detailed explanation of the seven trumpets go to http://www.wake-up.org.

mygif
15054. Dodo Rantho said in July 11th, 2014

I am in South Africa, please Daniel sent me information on email about Rev 8 to Rev 11

mygif
344714. M Stins said in April 18th, 2018

The Whites, U. Smith and the other Pioneers was in error. EGW TM p. 105 said not to hold on to what at one time they thought was true and to found it to be in error. Daniel and Revelation was dealing with what would take place for those (144,000), to preach the Gospel so the end would come. The Ottoman or the Islamic religion was not the scene in the Seven Trumpets this incorrect. The Sixth seal Rev 6:12 started to be exact the scene of the Second coming of the LAMB as indicated in verses 16 and 17. But Chapter 7 and angel is swiftly send from the east to stop the four angels for letting the scene previously to happen because two more group of people had to be sealed. The 144,000 before the great Time of Trouble and those, the great multitude during the Time of Trouble.
Rev Chapter Eleven shows clearly those who will receive power and use the Two Witnesses, which is the Bible. Yes, it is true during the 6th seal many died over the centuries after the 1844 Judgment had taken place. But people of all nations, tongues, religions, non-religion had to be witness too. However, this great tribulation is nothing like the earth have ever seen before. This time the tribulations would be dictated by THE MOST HIGH! The 144,000 will have power like Moses to call down four events by THE WRATH of THE MOST HIGH and THE LAMB! 1-a comet; 2- a asteroid will hit the sea; 3- meteorites hit the wicked drinking water; 4-for the first time the sun and the moon will be hit and moved from there axis. The warning is giving that the last three woes are even more serious! Chapter nine, the angel has a key and is actually not falling, but flying with great speed to unlock the bottomless pit. Why we do not get this is, we do not pray and study as we should!!! EGW in SP tell actually that Satan was kicked out of Heaven before this earth was created. THE FATHER and SON, she said agreed to go ahead and create the earth. Read the third Chapter. Satan is the only one who came roam, the majority of the fallen angels are confine in prison. Jude 1:6 also in Luke 8:31 if you look up the word it also means bottomless pit. Only an evil angel is release for the birth of each individual to assist human to disobey. When that person dies, that angel returns to prison. It a place where they were kick out to and that is Satan only seat of authority. The earth the Bible says belong to THE MOST HIGH!!!!! It is only Satan that you constantly read about!

Going back the angel has a key and release all these evil angels and they swiftly, like smoke head to one planet-earth! However, they are told not to hurt the earth, nor any green grass to all our sealed. They also cannot killed the wicked only torture them. Here the 144,000 will finish the work and many will be heal, dead raise and they will have help. Dan 12:2, 3 tells that many will awake for everlasting and others for everlasting contempt! I believe men like Noah, Daniel and women included will arise who have worked down throughout the centuries including in our day to assist in finishing the work. Here are the woes: 1-the wicked angels release; 2-the work of the remnants and those who awaken dealing with one evil power the whore. The papacy sees that he is powerless over the 144,000 as Pharaoh was powerless over Aaron and Moses! The great river Euphrates have dried up! (This is a past event and now this and Rev 16:12 are Islam falling for all of the kingdoms beyond to join with the beast. The remnant finishes their work; the great multitude are sealed. Then comes the beast who is not the papacy from the bottomless pit. He now takes over. No religion is to be worship but him. All religions are gone except one, the papacy. This is the second woe and the third one come swiftly or in one hour. This prophet time is 60 days. Read Dan 12! Probation has ended and the beast has a short time! The kings that he appointed hate the whore! Read all of Rev 17 and the false prophet is USA! Who are those on the papacy side- the Catholic, Protestants, false people who call themselves Jews-the Ashkenazi’s and last the SDA. They have become delusional and under the papacy’s thumb. Example is Trump and Ben Carson, THE HEAVENLY FATHER always gives an example! But the false prophet will do two important things. One, he will build an image, but wait, the Bible said the image comes to life. The Serpent did not talk to the woman in the Garden of Eden, it was Satan and this too is Satan. The image and not the beast must be worship now or all will be put to death. The beast follows Satan-hello! USA-the false prophet works with the beast as the seven last plagues are falling and the battle of Armageddon has begun. The papacy must fight they have no food! Only those tattooed with the beast mark can buy and sell! YAHWEH’S people have scattered and are safe. Their bread and water is sure. They heard THE FATHER tell the time of HIS SON’S coming and within fifteen days or 1,335 days spoken by Daniel will be blessed. The war ends with USA destroying Jerusalem with fire or a nuke. Jerusalem has become Babylon and the seat of the Catholic and her followers! They are destroyed and an angel sent from Heaven will cast this city into the sea! Rev Chapter 18 Now the third and final woe has come and the completion of sin is about to come! Chapter 19 shows the returning of YAHSHUA with HIS NEW NAME and both the beast and USA, the false prophet burned in the Lake of Fire! The rest of people flesh are ate by the birds. Chapter 20 now Satan, for the first time is place in the prison along with angels. The saints go to Heaven judge the wicked and return with HIM and the New Jerusalem. HE touches Mt. Olivet and it becomes a plain over the destroyed old Jerusalem who become Babylon and totally wiped out for good! The Saints are in the city, the wicked are about to receive their executive judgment along with Satan and his angels. The wicked are awaken, Satan and his angels are release after the thousand years. He again have the wicked delusional to believe that because they are more in number; they can take the city! As they prepare for short time they try to take the city, but they are stop to see a video of their lives and how it has come to their destruction. Even Satan bows realizing his sin and destruction he has cause! Yet, he shakes it off and with determination inspire his angels and the wicked they cannot turn back now! Fire comes down and destroys all of them! The New Earth now will begin!!!!!

mygif
346524. daniel said in April 29th, 2018

M Stins, You have have some interesting views, some of which I believe can be supported from inspired words from the Bible and Ellen White’s writings.

Some of the things you write, tho, are weird, to say the least.

May we be good Bereans, and study to show ourselves approved unto God.

Leave A Reply

Go Back To Home |

 Username

 Email Address

 Website

Please Note: Comment Moderation Maybe Active So There is No Need To Resubmit Your Comments