64 the first to comment

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3092. Sister in Christ (RT) said in June 7th, 2009

If light i.e. knowledge has been given to you then you must make every effort to “follow the Lamb wherever he goes.”

If you have not been given light, you cannot choose to go against that light.

God judges our choices. That is why the Bible says the following: “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent” Acts 17:30

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3099. Sam said in June 14th, 2009

I know Sequeira’s writings very well and translated many of them into Polish. I preached many sermons all over Poland on the basis of Beyond Belief and I never met any opposition from sincere and honest believers. What you wrote here is not true and you distorted the meaning of the author ideas. If Sequeira wrote that “humans are born right with God” he meant either newborn and converted or all born after cross because on the cross Jesus saved all the world but because it is a historic fact and the gift those people still have to accept this gift. So whatever he wrote he didn’t mean that all will be saved even those who didn’t accept the gift of salvation. And it is obvious that God’s love is “unconditional”. Have you ever read Romans 5 which sais that God loved us when we were His enemies and unconverted sinners. Start reading the Bible first!!!
Segueira’s writings are as important as the 1888 message and the best I have ever read and I know many people in my country (Poland) whose lives are changed after reading the Beyond Belief because this truth (the true Gospel) always leads to sanctification.
Stop discouraging people from reading this wonderful book!
Shame on you!

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3104. daniel said in June 19th, 2009

Sam, your vitrolic against someone with views different from yours explains better than anything that you are very much against unconditional love!

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3285. betterliving4u said in November 8th, 2009

Dear sweet Daniel, you misunderstand Sam. He has no vitriole. He loves you! However, you evidently are offended that someone disagrees with your definition of “unconditional love”. Any intelligent reading of Wieland or Sequeira reveals a definition different from the one that you attribute. Unconditional love is simply a way of expressing the wonderful Gospel truth that God’s love is not caused by our goodness or our badness, but is an indispensable expression of His eternal righteous character. Unconditional love does not equate with unconditional entry into heaven and eternal life. God’s unconditional love does not cease for the sinners at the close of probation or at the end of the millenium. The final erradicaion of the unrepentant will be the greatest heartbreak of the eternal existence of God, in my opinion. If God sheds tears, they will flow like a river when the unrepentant and the fallen angels and Lucifer himself are finally destroyed. Destruction of evil does not mean the end of God’s love. He does not destroy because He ceases to love.
Lest my rambling detract from the main point: unconditional love speaks of the essential truth that God is first last and always the initiator in the relationship with human beings that saves them from destruction. Grace and peace.

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3288. daniel said in November 10th, 2009

betterliving4u, Did you read Sam’s comment? If “start reading the Bible first!!!” and “shame on you!” don’t qualify as “vitrolic”, then i guess our definitions are light-years apart.
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Unconditional love describes Satan better than God, because Satan says “there are no rules”.

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3425. betterliving4u said in December 26th, 2009

Does it not occur to you my brother that love can offer criticism, even in stark terms, such as “shame on you” for turning people away from reading a book that will lead the reader not only to have peace and confidence with God, but also a life committed to holiness. If you argue with pastor Jack from the writing of EGW, the admonition to read “the Bible first” is wholly appropriate in the light of what EGW teaches regarding the primacy of the words of scripture over any other. I pray for you that you will understand the true meaning of “unconditional love” as used by pastors Jack and Robert. It means that God loves us because He is love, not because there is anything we have done or ever will do that causes or convinces or permits Him to love us. It is a horrible misunderstanding of God to believe that He stops loving you because you sin. When you believe this you want to run from God when you have failed, when in fact that is when you must flee TO Him! Grace and peace.

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3472. kenneth said in February 6th, 2010

Praise the Lord brethren.
I wish to observe that we need to study God’s character deeply in light of the cross, then we shall not misunderstand the gospel the way it happens with Daniel Winters. Instead of teaching people what he thinks is the gospel, he spends precious time on criticism. This is the kind of spirit which led the adventist church into the Laodecean state.
Bro. Winter, you may quote many texts and spirit of prophecy, but when the gospel in its true form has not won your heart you will continue struggling endlessly to be good, and eternal peace and victory that the saints will enjoy is going to bypass.
Bro.Winter, I want to assure you that you have terrible opposed the true light of the gospel. It is a repeat of 1888 when Uriah Smith and others opposed the gospel, and Sis. White greatly rebuked them, have you read that?

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3478. betterliving4u said in February 9th, 2010

“love’s requirements of obedience and service”. I’m not an English major, but “unconditional” and “requirements” are opposites aren’t they?
Friend, you might have done well to take an English major -:) To say that God’s love is unconditional does not mean that a love relationship with God does not require reciprocal commitments. The proof that God’s love is unconditional is that ‘while we were still enemies of God, Christ died for us’ If God’s love were conditional, He would have died only for people who first loved Him. God, in Christ is the initiator of love. He is the source and definer of love. He is love. To suggest that God’s love is not unconditional is inconcievable!—unless one is a legalist who believes that obedience can in any sense earn God’s love.

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3480. daniel said in February 9th, 2010

kenneth, do you believe in “unconditional love”?
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betterliving4u, You are trying to have it both ways – God’s love being unconditional, and also conditional. Is this possible? Yes, praise God he loved us first, and that while we still were his enemies! But, does that mean he keeps loving us “no matter what you do” as the term “unconditional” means? If God loves everyone no matter what they do, then there is no way he can assign some to the fire, and some he take to heaven. The end result of unconditional love teaching is that of universalism, which the Holy Spirit showed Ellen White would be one of the signs of the last days.

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3486. betterliving4u said in February 10th, 2010

God loves you simply because he has chosen to do so.
loves you when you don’t feel lovely.He loves you when no one else loves you. Others may abandon you, divorce you,and ignore you, but God will love you. Always. No matter what.
This is his sentiment: “I’ll call nobodies and make them some-bodies; I’ll call the unloved and make them beloved” (Rom. 9:25 MSG) This is his promise: “I have loved you, my people, with an everlasting love. With unfailing love I have drawn you to myself” Jer. 31:3 NLT

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3493. daniel said in February 12th, 2010

Does God love Satan now? If so, then we must love him too.
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But the Bible says to “flee from the devil”.

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3549. betterliving4u said in March 19th, 2010

God’s relationship to Satan is not the subject of the Bible, and is not included in the Gospel. We really cannot comment on how God “feels” about Satan. We do know that Satan is an implacable enemy of our great adn good God, and indeed we are warned to “flee” from him. What we do know is that the destruction of the unrepentant will be a “strange” act for God. Destruction of the unrepentant is assured. Yet we cannot conclude that God does not love the unrepentant. Christ died the Second Death for “all men”. What He suffered is what sinners deserve to suffer, and while He was God’s “beloved Son”, God turned away from Him as He hung on the cross, “why hast thou forsaken me?” The great understatement in all of scripture is when God says, “I take no delight in the death of the wicked.”

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3555. daniel said in March 22nd, 2010

“Destruction of the unrepentant is assured. Yet we cannot conclude that God does not love the unrepentant.”
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That’s what the Bible says, so i will believe it. And yes, the Bible also does talk about the relationship of God to Satan – please read Matthew 4 etc.
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The Great Controversy is specifically between Christ and his angels, and Satan and his angels, so we can know very well what is the relationship of God to Satan, thus showing what our relationship to Satan should be.

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4203. Steve Billiter said in August 2nd, 2010

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for you excellent review of Beyond Belief. Sadly, my local church here in Reno NV is thoroughly corrupted with the influence of Jack Sequeria, and of that concerning the 1888 MSC. These purveyors of a false gospel are involved in just about every conceivable sin concerning Sabbathbreaking and this false gospel.

Universal Justification is only one of the major errors these deceived individuals teach which says the whole world is justified and reconciled at the cross.

Sequeria’s errors are multiple, as are Robert Wieland’s, to include an across the board denial of Ellen White by Sequeria, and a twisting of her words by Wieland, Short, and their whole organization.

“Let the purveyors of falsehood and distortion be assured that we will continue to respond until every false gospel in Adventism is vanquished, and until our precious church is united at last on the unambiguous platform of inspired truth”(Pastor Kevin Paulson; “More than a Shade of Difference: The Tragedy of the 1888 MSC:” p. 15).

http://www.hopeint.org/off1997.htm
Click on January’s edition, and scroll down to Pastor Kevin’s article.

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4969. Jude said in September 28th, 2010

Sequira’s writings are from the very pits of Hell, it is sad that less than one percent of our church is studying to see this, and anyone propagating His message is preaching the 3 unclean spirits message of Rev.16:13, 14 and is a shame to heaven.

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5018. ishimwe said in November 1st, 2010

Daniel,Jude an Steve, i first advise you 2 read sequeira’s books prayerfully without any preconceived idea.

Sequeira’s theology is the present truth that the world need to hear.

personnally God used this Servent of his,2 Bless my life.now i have the assurance of savation and at the same time enjoying the transforming power of the hollyspirit that lead me to obey God’s commandements.

Bretheren,i can confess that God raised this old man ,so that as a united church,the world may hear from the adventis church the loud cry ,that christ is our righteoussness.

please,stop repeating the same mistakes that the bretheren in 1888 has commited,and the result is that we are wonderer more than 100 years needlessly in this crazy World.

Be blessed !!!!!!!!

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5019. Ishimwe said in November 1st, 2010

i mean wanderer,not wonderer as i wrote in my comment(sorry 4r the mistake)

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5599. karl said in February 27th, 2011

There no question that God loves sinners, else none of us would have any hope whatsoever. It is a mistake, however, to conflate unconditional love with unconditional salvation (universalism.)

To claim that all humanity was saved at the cross is to throw out EGW’s clear statements on the conditional nature of salvation. And, no, the condition is not the absence of overt rejection of salvation. The condition is repentance. We must come to believe that Jesus loves us and, as a result of that belief, repent of our rebellion against Him and let Him into our hearts. This is what it means to believe. Then, and only then, does He save us.

Salvation is an inside job, not an outside one.

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5604. daniel said in March 1st, 2011

ishimwe, Jack Sequeira is promoting old error – the error of universalism, so we must expose this error for what it is. You see, Satan is very angry with the 1888 message, as he knows it will bring the Latter Rain if fully received. So he raises up peope to try and piggyback their errors onto this wonderful truth message of Christ our Righteousness, to get people to reject the truth.
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karl, i don’t know if you read the all the post and comments or not, but it is clear from the Bible that God does NOT love some people (Hosea 9:15 etc). While there is hope for our salvation, he will do everything to save us, but he “abhors” the bloodthirsty and deceitful man. Yes, this doctrine of unconditional love does lead directly into universalism.

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5623. Stina said in March 13th, 2011

You are really out in the woods. Pastor Sequeira does NOT teach Universalism. He has said over and over that man has a choice and if he doesn’t choose Christ, he will be lost. You must have preconceived ideas and that makes you think that Sequeira says what he doesn’t say. You really have a big problem with yourself.
If God doesn’t love everybody, can you tell me who He doesn’t love. What sin does a person have to commit in order to make God hate him? Is not hatred from Satan? God hates sin, but not sinners.
I don’t know what God can do to change your head. You really need a change. I feel sorry for you.

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5624. daniel said in March 14th, 2011

Hello Stina from Sweden,
Your post clearly shows the spirit of what i’ve seen from most of the “unconditional love” believers.

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5646. SAkindi Benjamin said in April 3rd, 2011

Hello everyone,thanks for the insightful comments.I will try to read the Bible to verify your comments against the Bible.God bless everyone.

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5724. Philip Kojwang said in June 14th, 2011

Thanks everyone for reading Beyond Belief with great interest.Thanx for your comments positive or negative.We are all in the classroom of the ideal teacher,Jesus Christ.One discussion group leader in the class,Jack Sequira has been accorded rare grace to comprehend what it will take his peers decades to understand.
Jesus took the sinful nature of man upon himself.That is why he came via a human family.DO you know the geneology of Jesus in detail?How could His death purge iniquity that He didn’t take up in the first place?What business did He have in the womb of the virgin Mary if not to take up the sin of mankind?
God loves the sinner unconditionally.Read how the sin of Ephraim is written down but still birth pains hurt Christ who wants to give him new sinless birth..Hosea 12:12,13.

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5728. daniel said in June 17th, 2011

Hello Philip, How can a man who is teaching one of the oldest errors of Satan “God loves you no matter what you do”, been accorded rare grace by God? Is God spreading error in these last days to try and overthrow the faith of his remnant people?
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Perhaps Jack Sequeira is a very affable man, i do not know. But it doesn’t matter how friendly or nice or sincere he seems to be, he is teaching error to put us Laodiceans into a deeper sleep, as his doctrine leads directly to the idea that everyone will be saved.

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5755. Philip Kojwang said in July 8th, 2011

Hello Daniel.Thanks for your zeal for the word of God.However, go easy on Sequeira like Gamaliel did on Paul.Ultimately Paul was flogged as the offense of the cross demands but he is still right to date.May my appeal to you come softly like the dream and counsel of Pilate’s wife concerning ‘this man Jesus’
Your problem is Sequeira’s teaching of unconditional love..love that is selfless,changeless and conditionless. Daniel, I know God loves you but what condition have you fulfilled to deserve His love? When you are still a sinner, a living sinner,God’s grace , undeserved love still flows to you, He still stands at the door and knocks. But when you die in that state of unbelief, Sequeira says clearly, the blood of Jesus does not cover unbelief..willful, persistent and ultimate unbelief.
To the living who still sin, God loves them unconditionally. But to the dead who fall asleep in ‘ultimate obstinacy’ this message of unconditional love does not apply.Sequeira is addressing the living NOT the dead.
About Christ taking sinful nature at birth I refer you to read about the sacrificial lamb in Leviticus. When a sinner confessed his sin, he held the head of the ‘lamb without blemish’. The time the lamb was being slaughtered and its blood flowed , it was now sinful blood not blood without blemish.When its flesh burned on the altar and the smoke ascended to heaven , God was pleased because it was the smoke and smell of sin burning or getting destroyed.This was why the sinner walked away fogiven.
His sin had flowed to the ground in the blood of an animal initially without blemish.Likewise ,when Jesus descended from heaven, He was ‘a lamb without blemish’ but nine months of gestation confessed our sins on his head.That is why God accepts His death ,the flow of His blood,as our own.That is why you and I stand forgiven.God put us to death in Christ.Our sinful life(blood) flowed at the cross.We have been punished in Christ.
However ,Christ carried our sinful nature out of obedience unlike us who bore it out of disobedience.He obeyed God and took up this nature.This is what qualified Him for resurrection. He could have died for His sin or could have needed a savior also.God bless you.

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5765. Josephat said in July 19th, 2011

What example did Jesus Himself give? The prodigal son. Was there any condition/requirement from his father? NO. Instead the Father accepted him. Dirty he was, but the father KISSED him! clothed him, gave a ring, gave him shoes, threw a party for his lost son! Our Father in heaven has not put strings to our salvation; He says ‘come home son’. After this he will fill us with the Holy spirit who shall teach us all this things. When He gives rain does He segregate? and sunshine?…… His Love has no strings; it freely flows. The ONLY CONDITION FROM OUR SIDE IS TO ACCEPT HIS LOVE. BUT FROM HIS SIDE IT FREELY FLOWS just like water from a spring-does it have condition to flow out so that you can drink from it? NO! Rather its you to accept its providence and your thirst shall be quenched.

Another thing is that our debt has already been paid by Jesus- we only need to accept this. We are like a guilt and convicted life-jailed prisoner whose sentence has been substituted with a very large fine. What if he chooses to remain in prison (the debt remain paid)and if he accepts the gift and get out? he is free. Yes we are all naturally born sinners but spiritually our debt has already been paid! We have justification which comes by faith. I don’t Know if Faith is a condition but what I know is that it is not God who is to be faithful but us (our side of the coin)
My born-sinner friend whether you accept this or not, He still LOVES YOU and He is still calling you-TELL THE WORLD THIS TRUTH

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5770. daniel said in July 24th, 2011

Josephat, i met a man in America last year who was very zealous for God in a humble way. He wrote on his web page about God’s “unconditional love”. When i pointed out to him that this was error, his first reaction was to be angry, then to be reflective, and then to be joyous because he found a word that described what he believed much, much better. Which word? UNMERITED.
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God’s love is unmerited. There is nothing we can do or have to earn that love. It flows out freely from him. But we can choose to reject it, and continual rejection will eventually cause a withdrawal of that love, as Hosea 9:15 clearly shows. Of course the Lake of Fire shows that clearly too.
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This is a major point, because if God really does love you no matter what you do, then that means he loves Satan now, and of course “unconditional” means that there can be no degrees in that, so the doctrine of unconditional love of God is saying that God the Father loves Satan now just as much as he loves his only begotten son – Jesus Christ.

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5775. Philip Kojwang said in August 4th, 2011

Hi Daniel,
Why on earth are you obsessed with the idea that unconditional love implies God loves even Satan?Why do you keep putting obscenities and blasphemy in other people’s mouths? Unconditional love only applies to the living on this side of eternity.Satan has long crossed his deadline for salvation.You do not know how many years of grace Lucifer and the followers squandered in heaven before being hurled to the world of the dead.That same deadline is also coming for obstinate humanity when God will hurl them away from His presence never to waste His precious and unconditional love again.

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5777. daniel said in August 4th, 2011

Philip, you denounce “unconditional love” in stronger terms than i have used!
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Yet you do this with the idea of supporting this erroneous doctrine?
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Please research what “unconditional” means, and then apply it to this case correctly, not only in situations where you think it fits, while leaving out other situations, because that does injustice to the word “unconditional”.

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5788. nmakora said in August 19th, 2011

Bro. Daniel,
I am sorry you have misunderstood and misrepresented Elders Sequiera and Wieland.
Though each of us human beings have our uniqueness and complexity, and no one can truly claim accurately that they know another, yet we can know one another enough to trust and believe that we are not being misled. I am from a non-Adventist and non-Christian background. Ever since I joined the Adventist Church about 40 years ago, I have interacted with many Adventist and the larger Christian authors. The two authors – Sequiera and Wieland have a unique voice. You have misunderstood what they stand for and zealously preach. I can testify I have read both extensively and some of their books thoroughly as if searching for gold. They do not teach what you seem to allegedly purport to say as heretical. I don’t know whether suggesting that you read my book, THE GOD YOU CANNOT IGNORE, may disabuse your confusion and that of many Adventists. It is a laymanly exposition of the Gospel based on John 3:16. Try it and read reflectively and see if there may any better understanding on the unconditionalness of God’s love and His plan of redemption. Your brother in Him who taught us love and commanded us to love one another, Naphtali

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5906. Ishimwe Prince said in November 6th, 2011

Daniel, the devil is working hard to blind you, so that u cannot understand the “unconditional love of God”, anyone who the holy spirit has revealed this amazing truth, can understand you- you are trying to understand God’s unconditional love through your Human understanding of the word “love”, none can blame you, I had the same problem like you, but I thank the Holy Spirit, for he revealed to me this marvelous truth.

You asked If God still love Satan? My answer to that is yes. You can ask me, how come he will be destroyed at the end of time? It is still because Gods love is unconditional. U see, choosing to live independently from God, it Is to choose a life of misery and Gods unconditional love cannot allow to see his beloved creature suffering, the only better solution is to destroy them than to allow them to live in misery. In another word, destruction is another gift from God but a gift that our nature cannot consider as good gift, but in reality, it is good because its source (God) is good.

My advice for you dear brother in Christ, is that you can stop to invent things that Sequeira has never teach. I’ve read a lot of books of him, nowhere Sequeira teach Universalism, nowhere, please stop lying!!

My prayer is that the Holy Spirit may open your eyes and the eyes of many fellows Adventist, so that you can understand this amazing AGAPE.

GOD BLESS U!!!

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5908. daniel said in November 7th, 2011

nmakora and Ishimwe,
Your passion for your subject shines thru loud and clear :)
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I can assure you that i have not misrepresented the main message in Br. Sequeira’s book, and the support of that from Br. Wieland. I have had direct contact with Br. Wieland, and that is what he believes/d. Of course Br. Sequeira shows those statements clearly in his “Beyond Belief” book. Did you not read the book or my post here where i quote that he says “this is the key issue here”? Yes, he is correct, this is the key issue here. This is why i am doing what i can to overthrow that error, to help save souls from destruction by “philosophy and vain deceit”.
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Ishimwe, your rabid denunciation of me, even calling me a liar, is common evidence i see from those who believe in “unconditional love”. They are very hateful to any who does not believe in their “unconditinal love” doctrine.
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God loves us so much he will destroy us? This sounds like a sound bite for what persecutors of God’s true people have said all thru history – “We love you but since you don’t follow our ways we will kill you for your own good”. Please reflect on what you are saying, Brother.
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Also, please read my entire post so that you will learn that “agape” is a bad love sometimes.
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The Bible says that God hates some people. Why is it so hard to accept that?

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5915. Ishimwe Prince said in November 11th, 2011

Br Daniel, my prayers are one you, you don’t know that it is the devil who is using you to destroy the work that God is doing among his people through Sequeira, only the Holy Spirit can reveal you the destructive work you are doing.

i repeat it to you, God is Agape, his love can not allow to see his creature living forever in misery.

brother, you say it well, it is hard for me to accept that God hates some people because the God i pray is Love. God’s Agape love is unconditional. It is spontaneous and uncaused. It is not dependent on our goodness. Therefore, God is able to love sinners and even His enemies—Romans 5:6-10. God’s love is is self-emptying, God is willing to step down for the benefit of others, even His enemies—Phil. 2:6-8; Romans 5:7 vs. 8. This was the great revelation of Agape at the cross of Christ—2 Corinthians 8:9.

may the Holy Spirit give you understanding !!! Amen!!

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5929. Philip Kojwang said in November 20th, 2011

Yes,while we were yet sinners, His enemies, Christ died for us.HE loved the sinners [His enemies] to the extent of dying for them.
For God so loved the [sinful] world that He sent His only Son….. Daniel please and I believe you are not alone in your interpretation of God’s word, read more widely and understand both the letter and the spirit of God’s word.But thank you for your interest in the Gospel.Those who seek the truth ,it shall be revealed to them.

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6902. Ken said in August 24th, 2012

Daniel, I see where you’re coming from. You mentioned that God’s love is unmerited. Of a surety, yes it is. But you deny that it is unconditional. Do you mean to tell me that God has hate in his heart for some of his creatures? (Your passage from Hosea and other places in the Bible have been quoted out of context. The Bible teaches that God hates sin, obviously because it stands against everything He is, and this is illustrated as directed to the person who cherishes it.) But he cannot hate the sinner. His love for him, no matter how much he rejects Him, will not stop, unless that person is sin itself, which is impossible. Pr Sequeira, I believe, has studied the Bible prayerfully and God has blessed him with much light that he willingly shares. I advice you to look into his other writings with an open mind.

The Bible is clear that God is love. He is the very embodiment of love. He loves freely as you said, but he also does so regardless of your constant rejection of Him. This does by no means keep Him from administering justice (which involves his “strange” work of destruction). Justice is still passed on to the person He has pleaded to turn from his wicked ways, but still loves. Just like a father may be compelled to give his rebellious son over to the jailer, even though he loves him.

I would appreciate a response on this. May God guide you.

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6920. daniel said in August 30th, 2012

Hosea 9:15 “All their wickedness [is] in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes [are] revolters.”
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Please explain how i am taking this out of context. The clear words of God are “I will love them no more”. Notice that it is NOT talking about not loving their actions anymore, but not loving THEM anymore.
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The doctrine of unconditional love does definitely lead to universalism, there is no way around it.
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In the future people will rightly attack us Seventh-day Adventists on this point, as we say God will burn some up, and take others to heaven, but he loves them all the same.
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It is very true that “God is love”. It is also true that “God is a consuming fire”. Using the same logic as the unconditional love believers use, that means that we should believe in “unconditional fire”.
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Please think deeper about this subject, praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance.

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6928. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 2nd, 2012

You state that God doesn’t love certain people (anymore, if he did originally). So basically you are saying that God instructs us to do something he himself doesn’t do? Luke 6:27 – “But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you…” In other words, you would have us believe that God says “do as I say, not as I do.” I’m convinced that this is just one more devastating and misleading counterpart of legalism which says, “do your best and Jesus does the rest”. I believe SDAs have more to fear from people attacking them for their false gospel rather than for claiming God’s love is unconditional. Where people spend eternity (dead or alive)has absolutely NOTHING to do with God’s love for them. God’s love sent Jesus to redeem everyone of them. His love wants everyone to be with him for eternity, but it’s also his love that gives everyone of them a choice as whether to respond to that love or reject it.

All interpretation of Scripture must be based on the one premise that GOD IS LOVE, including the texts that talk about God’s “hatred” and “wrath”. If that is done, the only conclusion one can come to is that God’s love is unconditional. It’s when one singles out one or two “proof texts” to back a preconceived opinion that it becomes misleading and dangerous.

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6932. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 4th, 2012

PS: Because God’s love is “unconditional love”, you state God’s consuming fire must then also be “unconditional fire”. You state correctly. His “consuming fire” is also unconditional. In the presence of sin, any sin, all sin, he is always a consuming fire. That is precisely why we need Jesus. God’s unconditional love is the prerequisite for his hatred of sin which is none other than a “consuming fire.” The object of his “consuming fire” is always sin … never the sinner … whereas the sinner is always the object of “unconditional love” even if he (the sinner) chooses fire over love.

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6933. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 4th, 2012

PPS: By the way, I have read Pastor Sequeira’s book, “Beyond Belief”, plus most of the study material he has posted on his website, and carefully (prayerfully) compared it to Scripture … and his teaching did not fail the test! His book “Beyond Belief” is only “beyond belief” for the mind that refuses to let go of legalism … exactly the way the Judaizers refused to let go of their “works of the law.”

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6948. daniel said in September 11th, 2012

SinnerSavedByGrace, It seems like you did not read the entire post. Several quotes were shown from the Bible where God definitely DOES NOT love some people. 2 Chronicles 19:1 “And Jehoshaphat the king of Judah returned to his house in peace to Jerusalem. And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.”
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Here we see where God rebukes someone for loving someone else!!!
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So the very first statement in your post is incorrect. It isn’t “daniel” who is stating that God doesn’t love some people, it is GOD who is stating that he himself doesn’t love some people.
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The interpretation you give of Luke 6:27 is incorrect also. To see the verse in context, read 28 also: “Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.” So we see that we are not to take vengeance on our enemies. Yes, we are commanded to NOT take vengeance on our enemies, because God himself will do that.
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Unconditional love believers are required to love Satan. Can you show inspired evidence showing we should love Satan? Do you love Satan?
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God’s love has never been termed “unconditional” in inspired writings anywhere. It is only in 20th-21st modern days where psychologists have advanced “beautiful” theories that have permeated Christian circles where you find this doctrine.
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Which will you believe, worldly wisdom, or wisdom from above?

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6967. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 12th, 2012

Daniel, you are wrong: I DID read your whole post, and most of what everyone else posted, also. I just totally disagree with your interpretation, and I base that disagreement on three years of studying the subject almost exclusively. But if disagreement is proof that reading wasn’t thorough, then I could say the same thing to you: you didn’t really read my post once you realized it was in opposition to what you teach.

There is absolutely not one thread of “worldly wisdom” in the fact that Jesus gave his life for his enemies. Not just for the enemies that would eventually change their minds and become his friends; no, he gave his life for those enemies who would continue to be his enemies, including those enemies you claim God says he hates. You don’t give your life for someone you hate. Therefore, God’s hate cannot be separated from his love. Thus, his love is unconditional. And, therefore, God’s hate is not to be understood as being so shallow as to be directed at his enemy; no, his enemy is merely the tip of the iceberg. God’s hate goes much deeper than that. It is directed at what makes an enemy an enemy, not the enemy himself. Unless you understand this, you will continue to hold the erroneous conclusion that God hates some people.
God’s emotions are as far above our understanding as is God’s eternal existence and triune function. Therefore, they must be viewed in light of the tenure of the WHOLE Bible, not just isolating a couple texts and making them stand alone as you have done.

The Bible says the ultimate human love is to die for a friend, but that love is still conditional … if you’re my friend, I am willing to die for you. To die for one’s enemies, on the other hand, definitely defines unconditional love. As I said, you don’t die for someone you hate. And by the way, Jesus didn’t say, “Don’t take vengeance on your enemies” as you claim. He said, “LOVE your enemies.” We must understand that to be in the same context as when he said “Love one another as I have loved you.” In other words, our goal is to be so open to the Holy Spirit that he can love EVERYONE unconditionally through us just as God does. You can’t have a different definition for loving your enemies than you have for loving fellow believers. That is inconsistent interpretation.

Giving God a selective(or conditional) kind of love is only one step away from condoning belief in an eternally-burning hell. After all, is it so unreasonable to believe that if God hates some people, then he’s no better than Hitler or Mussolini or any other hate-filled, power-and-control monger who delights in torture. And that’s exactly what the devil wants us to believe of God; how do you love someone like that? As children we were taught that Jesus doesn’t love you if you’re bad! Of course, it’s a given, then, that if you want to go to heaven, you’d better be good. And that premise totally corrupts the gospel! It teaches that human effort needs to be added to the doing and dying of Jesus, that there’s something we can do to save ourselves, that salvation is NOT by grace through faith ALONE! Now THAT’S “worldly wisdom!”

I will be eternally thankful and rejoicing for the “wisdom from above” that finally convinced me of God’s unconditional love and his total-package gift of salvation that is mine by grace through faith alone. It is my prayer that you will soon receive it as well.

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6971. daniel said in September 14th, 2012

That’s odd that you read the entire post, but chose to disbelieve the direct words of God in
2Chronicles 19:1-2,
Psalm 5:5
Psalm 11:5
Hosea 9:15
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Why do you promote your own theories above God’s word? Why do you promote the idea we should love Satan? Why not just repent, and return to the truth as it is in Jesus Christ?

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6979. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 15th, 2012

PS: I forgot to address your concluding (and supposed to be conclusive, I’m noticing) argument … that if you love your enemies, you must also love Satan. If you want to know God’s feelings towards Satan, take note of Jesus’ response to Satan during his (Jesus’) ministry on earth. There is no hint of anger let alone hate in his rebukes.

If you theorize that God hates Satan, then you have to also acknowledge that God created Lucifer out of hate because he created him with full foreknowledge that he (Lucifer) would not only turn against him, but be the originator of evil (something God hates), would spawn every horrendous act of pain, suffering and death this world has ever known in its 6,000-year history, and would be the source of the horrible torture of, and cost the supreme sacrifice of, God’s only son in order to redeem the fallen race. If that’s your theory, then there is no reason to not believe that God also caused the birth of other human beings (who knows how many!) whose existence would also be solely for the purpose of perpetuating evil, and whose destiny could be none other than eternal death. And there you have full-blown predestination! God loves some people, hates others; calls some, doesn’t call others; chooses some, doesn’t choose others. One of Satan’s worst heresies.

In analyzing your posts, I’ve been brought to the conclusion that you totally misunderstand what real love is. Suppose some serial rapist kidnapped your young daughter, repeatedly raped and tortured her until she finally (days, weeks, months later) died from the abuse. I’m assuming you would say that is grounds for hate, both for you and for God, especially you knew that man had had every opportunity to turn his life around but chose not to respond. Now suppose that rapist/murderer was your son. Should still be grounds for hate, right? I don’t know about you, but even in my limited ability to love in the “conditional” sense of the word, he would still be my son, and I would still love him.

Unconditional love is based on principle, not emotion. That’s loving the unlovable. While unconditional love does not imply compliance with or tolerance of, association with or even the appearance of condoning evil in any and all forms, is never in league with or yoked together with, or aiding and abetting evil, at the same time, unconditional love always has in mind the welfare of the object of that love no matter what that object may do or say. Unconditional love rebukes, censors, and disciplines. And eventually, unconditional love may have to step back, let go and leave the person to the consequences of his decisions; and in God’s dealings with the determined and unrelenting evildoers, ending their lives. But that is NOT hate. In fact, freedom of choice IS unconditional love in the highest sense of the word. There is NO room for hate in love. That’s Bible 101!

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6981. daniel said in September 16th, 2012

SinnerSavedByGrace, Your passion for your belief comes thru loud and clear. The lack of Scriptural support for that belief is equally loud and clear.
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You have rejected the plainest statements from the Bible that God does not love some people, and twisted them to mean that God loves everyone.
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While you continue to reject God’s words, what use is it to supply any further words?
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Please repent from your own ideas and man-made theories that are contrary to the Word of God, and come back to the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.

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6990. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 18th, 2012

You accuse me of rejecting the plainest statements in the Bible and twisting them, and all the while you reject the plainest statement of all in the whole Bible: John 3:16 where it plainly states that God loved “the world”! There is no qualifier attached to that verse (nor is one to be found anywhere in its context) to say that John meant that God just loved only 75% of the world, or maybe even as much as 99.9% of the world, but definitely not 100%. Or how about the “God is love” statement in 1 John 4:8. There is also no qualifier anywhere there that states this is simply referring to ONE of God’s characteristics. No, it makes an indisputable statement that God IS love. And hate cannot exist in love because to hate someone is a sin.

You admonish me to repent from my own ideas. Well, let’s see. If I were to believe your ideas, I would have to conclude that the Bible contradicts itself because God doesn’t really love the whole world. He just loves some of “the world”. It’s obvious, then, that the “some” would be those who are “good enough”, so if his love towards me is based on my performance, then that would mean that I have some part in saving myself. Legalism, in other words. You haven’t been able to explain why God would tell human beings that they must love everyone, including their enemies, but you want me to believe that he hates the very people we are to love and destroys them out of hatred. If followed to its ultimate conclusion, your ideas would teach me that God created some people to be saved and some to be lost since he obviously knew from the time he created everyone “in Adam” which ones would be loves and which ones would be hated. Thus God obviously predestined some people to be lost and some to be saved.

Now if I believed those theories, I would indeed have need of repentance!

The truth as it is in Jesus Christ is that God unconditionally loves the ENTIRE world so much that he gave his Son to save the ENTIRE world; that Jesus purchased salvation for the ENTIRE world by his birth, life, death and resurrection 2,000 years ago; that this salvation is a gift offered to everyone who wants to receive it, by grace through faith ALONE! And you would ask me to repent of this?

If you choose not to respond further, that’s fine … I totally understand where you are coming from … I was there once myself. However, I would urge you and everyone who has read my posts here to go to Jack Sequeira’s website and start learning what the Gospel REALLY means. Do not settle for what you’ve been led to believe no matter for how long you have been led to believe it. You will truly know the meaning of John 8:32 – “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

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7001. daniel said in September 22nd, 2012

Brother, i have studied out this heresy of unconditional love very carefully. It first came to my attention around 10 years ago. It is beautiful sophistry of Satan.
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One thing for sure, nowhere is this phrase “unconditional love” used in inspired writings anywhere.
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You make many assertions about what “must be” if unconditional love is wrong, but they are human theories, contrary to the inspired words of God.
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I will continue to point out this deadly doctrine to all who are studying it, and show that it has no inspired backing whatsoever.
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Why not repent and follow Jesus?

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7004. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 23rd, 2012

To study God’s love effectively, it needs to be studied in light of the entire teachings of Scripture. Despite your ten-year study, it seems you still continue to be confused about John 3:16. As I said before, John 3:16 is NOT a human theory. It plainly states that “God so loved the world” … THE WORLD! If you change that to read “God only loves SOME people in the world, but others he hates”, then that becomes a “human theory”, a “deadly doctrine”, a “sophistry of Satan” and something that needs to be repented of if one truly chooses to follow Jesus, the One who asked his followers to love their enemies. Love and hatred work against each other. Love builds up; hatred destroys. You cannot hate someone for any reason without negatively affecting (and eventually destroying) yourself. That’s the nature of hate. Yet you claim that God “hates” certain people! That would mean God would end up destroying himself. Amazing deception!

It’s a lame claim that because the phrase “unconditional love” is not in the Bible, that means it is not an inspired principle. The word “legalism” wasn’t used in Paul’s day, either, but you cannot say that therefore legalism didn’t exist simply because it wasn’t labelled as such. That was the downfall of the nation of Israel and, as Galatians proves, was threatening the Christian church of Paul’s day. Two of the principles in Bible about God are: God IS love; and God changes not. That’s unconditional.

It’s your God-given privilege to continue to fight against the unconditional nature of God’s love if you so choose, but you will be continuing to fight against God himself because an unchanging God is love.

Believe me, I have repented … repented for the wasted years I spent steeped in legalism, having no concept of God’s amazing love. It was his love that caused me to repent of every known sin, and continues to cause me to repent daily for failing to share that love as I had opportunity, for for failing to bring him glory by letting him live out his life within me. But believing in his unconditional love is not ever to be repented of … against such love there is no law! It is in that love that my faith firmly rests. On the other hand, I can’t begin to thank him enough for Jesus, who so clearly and wonderfully modeled that love, and who now has my undivided heart.

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7005. SinnerSavedByGrace said in September 23rd, 2012

One more thing, Daniel. You accuse Jack Sequeira of teaching universalism, that everyone will ultimately be saved. If that is truly what you believe, it’s obvious that you have never really read his material. I have read nearly all of the material on his website, including Beyond Belief, and not ONCE in hundreds of pages does he even hint at universalism.

On the contrary, he constantly stresses that the salvation “package” (justification, sanctification, glorification) is a gift that, like any other gift, needs to be received in order to be of any value. In other words, the individual needs to accept Jesus as his Savior. He also constantly stresses that salvation not only justifies us (makes us right with God) but sanctifies us (makes our “rightness” a reality) through the indwelling Holy Spirit’s influence. He also constantly warns about falling into the ditch of “cheap grace”, that because we have freedom in Christ that does not mean freedom to live according to the desires of our sinful nature. Over and over he reminds us that baptism means we died to sin and are raised to life in Christ. Therefore, salvation (grace) doesn’t only mean forgiveness of sin, but it is also the power over sin that will produce a Christ-like life.

Now, be honest: is that the teaching of universalism?

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7006. daniel said in September 23rd, 2012

Again your enthusiasm for your doctrine comes thru loud and clear, SinnerSavedByGrace, but on top of the fact that you have no inspired quotes to support your doctrine, your hate towards others who don’t believe as you do comes thru loud and clear too.
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This has been my experience with most unconditional love people – while they loudly proclaim “unconditional love”, they are very antagonistic to all who don’t believe just as they do. Quite ironic, isn’t it?
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John 3:16 says nothing about God’s love being unconditional. It says “For God so loved the world…”. Please understand what it really says, and not what people try to twist it to say. “For so greatly did God love the world that” (Weymouth version). Nothing is written about God’s love being unconditional.
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God is love. Amen. God is also a “consuming fire” (Heb. 12:29). Is it proper to build a doctrine on one Bible text to make it contradict other Bible texts? Based on the logic used by “unconditional love” followers, they should also be preaching about God’s “unconditional fire”!
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SSBG wrote: “it’s obvious that you have never really read his material”. While your comments were civil, i continued to allow them to be displayed, even tho i disagreed totally with them. But now that you have basically accused me of lying, your privileges are revoked.
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May you repent, and stay away from universalism in all its forms.

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7282. Steve Billiter said in December 25th, 2012

I’ve had experience with the false gospels that Jack Sequeria and Robert Wieland have written. Universal Justification may be the most glaring error that both hold.

In my opinion, these “gospels” have done more to divide Adventism than perhaps any other perversions of truth that we may find.

For those who seek an easy, no conditions, no 3 angels messages, no Investigative judgment, no sanctuary type message–then it’s there in Sequeria’s “gospel” (he also despises the SOP) and the 1888 MSC’s very strange, unbiblical, perverted gospel.

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7283. Steve Billiter said in December 25th, 2012

AGod’s love is only unconditional in that Christ died for the entire world. The LORD does not excuse willful sin and disobedience. I have seen in the past where Robert Wieland and Jack Sequeria have written specious errors that negate the conditions for salvation. Love and courtesy is fine, but it will never take the place of sound doctrine which is a manifestation of God’s love!

2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
The unconditional pardon of sin never has been and never will be. Such pardon would show the abandonment of the principles of righteousness that are the very foundation of the government of God. . . . {CTr 139.4}

But it is not always safe to ask for unconditional healing. Let your prayer include this thought: “Lord, Thou knowest every secret of the soul. Thou art acquainted with these persons; for Jesus, their advocate, gave His life for them. He loves them better than we possibly can. If, therefore, it is for Thy glory and the good of these afflicted ones to raise them up to health, we ask Thee in the name of Jesus, that health may be given them at this time.” In a petition of this kind, no lack of faith is manifested. {CH 375.1}

If there are those who are backslidden, these meetings are for them. There is great danger of the love of the world excluding the love of Jesus. These poor, tempted souls will never find rest and peace until they make a full and unconditional surrender. The requirements of God’s word are positive. “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God will all thy heart, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, and thy neighbor as thyself.” This is the only condition laid down in the word of God upon which we can claim eternal life. The promises of God are ample. The gospel was not given to awaken desires it could not satisfy. “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” {RH, December 11, 1883 par. 11}

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7298. daniel said in December 30th, 2012

Well put, Brother Steve.

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8571. Steve Billiter said in September 17th, 2013

ishimwe,
I have no pre-concieved opinions or biases to deal with–else I never would have understood Bible salvation. Conversely, those who read Sequeria and Wieland without a solid, working, Bible background can easily be deceived by false gospels such as Sequeria’s and Wieland’s.

No one who is truly converted and trusts in God’s guidance–or even seeking truth and truth only–will not be deceived.

Because of my former Southern Baptist Bible training, I had a good foundation in Biblical soteriology and didn’t fall for false gospels. My Adventist Bible work updated and strengthened these same beliefs.

There is no protection from the wiles of Satan other than,

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

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18431. genie99 said in July 26th, 2014

Jesus did not take on the nature of angels but our very fallen nature.Hebrews 2:16 Your review is erroneous.

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35848. Debbi said in September 4th, 2014

Is God’s love unconditional? Yes. Are there conditions to eternal life? Again the answer is Yes. Ever heard of a paradox? A paradox are two thought which appear contrary, but are not. The gospel is full of them. “You don’t really live till you first die”; “Buy without money”; “Christ who knew no sin, was made to be our sin”; “a bush burns with fire, but doesn’t burn the bush”; overcome evil with good”… So it is with understanding how “God’s love is unconditional, yet there are conditions.” God loved us when we were yet sinners, we didn’t ask for Him to die for us, we didn’t ask for him to give us His son, we didn’t ask for a plan to redeem us from the depths of eternal death. God did it for you and I wether we wanted it or not, for without it we had no choice but eternal death. All men would have died instantly should Adam and Eve received their death reward when they sinned. But because of grace instantly bestowed upon man the moment he sinned, it this unconditional bestowal of grace given, That’s His unconditional love given to you and I. Though he has given this life to each of us, this this unconditional love stands a waits for a response. We can either choose our sins, or choose to believe in the grace and surrender to it. The conditional of eternal life is surrendering to God’s work in the soul, which takes us from this temporary life which comes from His unconditional love to eternal life. Or we can choose to hang onto our sins, and not believe in the gift of God to you, and thus reject the gift from God’s plan to redeem you, and pay the penalty ourselves. Unconditional love gives us the choice. That’s the gospel paradox of God’s love.

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64690. daniel said in October 19th, 2014

Debbi, you write: “God loved us when we were yet sinners,”
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The correct word to describe this is not “unconditional”, but “unmerited”.
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“Unconditional” would mean that God loves his Son, Jesus, just as much as he does Satan!

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101442. Ulaiasi Dauvunau said in December 8th, 2014

 Unconditional love simply mean; NOT to be paid back (it is free) but meant to be received as free GIFT.
• Those that will be lost are those that rejected Jesus and the benefits pertaining to His death 2000 years ago. One of the benefits of the cross is deliverance in His second coming.

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103848. daniel said in December 12th, 2014

Ulaiasi, Sorry to see that your definition of “unconditional” is false. I do not doubt your sincerity, as I know many sincere fellow SDA believers who do not understand what “unconditional” means.

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259068. gerhardebersoehn said in August 10th, 2016

It is futile to even discuss an illusion like universal or unconditional salvation, or the gross error that Jesus ‘took on our very fallen nature’. It is because Roman Catholicism believes such things that it also can believe heresies like transubstantiation and that Jesus’ soul was left in hell while his flesh underwent corruption in suffering and death.

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273380. Ben_Mat said in November 3rd, 2016

Dear Daniel. I took the interest to read all the posts here from the first one posted on June 7, 2009 by Sister in Christ (RT) to the last one posted on August 10, 2016 by gerhardebersoehn.

Now that English is not my mother tongue, I don’t think I would do justice to the english word “unconditional” if I tried to give its definition from my own head. Therefore I will refer to the Oxford Dictionary of English (Thanks to Steve Jobs who included it in my old white macbook).

The Oxford Dictionary of English defines the word “unconditional” in the following simple terms: “NOT SUBJECT TO ANY CONDITIONS” followed by an example which goes like this: “unconditional surrender”.

Good enough the dictionary did not use “unconditional love” to confuse me even more; or perhaps, coming from human perspective is it because there is no such thing as conditional love?

Now to avoid making my post too lengthy, let me end it with a question to you my brother Daniel.

The question goes like this:

I have no doubt that you know and believe from deep within your gut that God loves you! If you believe so, brother Daniel, what conditions did you fulfill before “he loved US first”? And what conditions do you fullfill today brother Daniel, in order to maintain his supply of love to you? If you were to wake up tomorrow morning to find an Invoice from Heaven requesting you to pay God’s “CONDITIONAL love” Would you be able to pay? If so, how would settle your accounts with God?

Thank you so much brother Daniel!

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274342. Shireen said in November 8th, 2016

Ben, thank you for taking the time to read all of the comments. I am ‘Sister in Christ (RT)’ who commented in 2009.
The concept of God’s unconditional / conditional love is a paradox which is hard for me to understand.
I view it in the light of all Scripture which says that God is LOVE. We can only love Him because He has first loved us. He so loved the world that He gave His Son so we need not perish. Even when we were enemies of God we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son.I believe that God’s love for us is unconditional, being AGAPE IN NATURE (John 3:16).
But, on the other hand, His friendship with us is CONDITIONAL UPON OUR RESPONSE. Thus Jesus says, “YE ARE MY FRIENDS, IF YE DO WHATSOEVER I COMMAND YOU” (John 15:14). It is a partnership.
With respect.

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274871. Shireen said in November 11th, 2016

“A large class to whom the doctrine of eternal torment is revolting are driven to the opposite error. They see that the Scriptures represent God as a being of love and compassion, and they cannot believe that He will consign His creatures to the fires of an eternally burning hell. But holding that the soul is naturally immortal, they see no alternative but to conclude that all mankind will finally be saved. Many regard the threatenings of the Bible as designed merely to frighten men into obedience, and not to be literally fulfilled. Thus the sinner can live in selfish pleasure, disregarding the requirements of God, and yet expect to be finally received into His favor. Such a doctrine, presuming upon God’s mercy, but ignoring His justice, pleases the carnal heart and emboldens the wicked in their iniquity” (Great Controversy, 537).

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282058. Hellen Oimbo said in December 19th, 2016

I have followed this discussion with a lot of interest.I have a question though regarding some of the teachings of br Sequeira.That he has denied the existence of obedience to our salvation, he teaches the catholic demonic doctrine of being born sinners and that as human beings we are walking masses of sin. He claims that we are and shall be 100% sinners till Christ comes.What can you comment about that if truly that is what he believes to be true?

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284203. daniel said in January 2nd, 2017

I’m sorry Hellen, it has been so long since I read this book by Sequeira, that I cannot answer any of your questions here, but think that he teaches we are not born estranged from God.
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I do know that we absolutely are born estranged from God, needing a Saviour. That is standard Christian teaching, and we should not reject it just because Catholics teach it also.

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