Month: November 2008

upset tummy, short trip, dream


Recent events….Sunday last week i made a great soup, and then went to bed. The husband of the place here and i were the only ones to eat it, and both of us had a spewing party all nite. With some charcoal and grape juice and raw eggs, we mostly overcame it, but still had a fever and nausea until Thursday, when, thankfully, just a day before taking a trip, we both got well.

On Friday morning we got up and left at 4:30 to walk 20 minutes to bus #77 to the northern bus terminal – Mo Chit. We caught the 6:30 bus and arrived in Tak around 1:15pm. Our friend met us, and we enjoyed a nice weekend in the countryside with the cows and chickens and birds and grass etc. My friend seemed so happy to have someone to be with him, as he is the only Seventh-day Adventist there, and he talked and talked and talked with the Thai speaker in our group from Bangkok.

I was able to have a 2-hour talk with the owner of the place (Avoda) on Sunday nite, going over some of the Bible texts showing that once-saved-always-saved is not correct. With some of the places he commented that it was “Old Testament”, and even eliciting smiles from me twice, once when he said Judas was not in the dispensation of the church, so he was lost, and also by saying that even people who hate God totally and would be miserable in heaven will have to go there if they ever once in their lives accepted Jesus as their Saviour. I didn’t tell him then, but it is putting the attributes of Satan onto Jesus, to say that no matter what you wish, once you do one thing you can never repent of it – in this case – once you accept Jesus, you must go to heaven even if later you regret your decision. Of course i believe that if your works do not live up to your profession, you will be found “wanting” in the scales when Jesus weighs your heart. But to think that there is no way to escape salvation if you once name the name of Jesus, even if you are like Satan who believes, you must go heaven – really strange doctrine!!!

But the stories this man has are really interesting, and i can see how the Lord has led him very far. He doesn’t want to just follow man’s ideas. He has started to believe that the Sabbath is a rest day, but still worships on Sunday. He doesn’t allow Christmas or Easter celebrations on his property either, angering many of his fellow Christians. I sure hope and pray he can come up to follow all the 3 Angels, and not just the 3rd.

Monday we had another 2 hour meeting, and i was bowled over to receive an envelope with money in it before i left – wow! even very few SDAs treat me this well! Please Lord, watch over him, and may he fully, completely, take hold of the truth. In my human understanding, it looks to me like his place could be a great center for training young people from all over Thailand to be strong Christians, and this country could really change. His dream is for 1,000 kids, and centers also to help the displaced Burmese people living in Thailand. It would be wonderful if we could join forces somehow. Lord, please work it all out to your glory. Break Satan’s power, and open up this man’s understanding to follow you completely.

On Saturday nite there i had a dream. I dreamt i was sleeping – sleeping in a big room with a high, long window, and my brother sleeping in a bed just a few feet away. There was a horrible, suffocating, dark, oppressive feeling over me. I could only choke out the sound “Jeeee”. Then a litte freer “Jesus!” Then i felt freer, and said “Jesus, save me!” Instantly i was totally free. What a great dream 🙂 Thank you Jesus, and always be near me. Thank you for hearing me when i call. And keep me from the attacks of Satan.

The bus back to Bangkok was uneventful, but travelling 6 hours without a stop is not much fun. I ate bread and raisins and fruit and peanuts on the bus for lunch, and then after changing to #77 at Mo Chit, ate basically the same thing again. Thai food stalls serve stuff that only looks like crap to me. I mean really, most of it doesn’t even resemble food to me – little fried somethings or round shape somethings in some unintelligible broth that looks more like something already digested and going to the waste treatment plant, rather than something about to be processed by a human.

Now i’m back in the high-rise apt. looking out on the 14th floor over the high-rises of Bangkok, reading about the Tower of Babel to the little girl who lives here. Seems a bit surreal. Still helping on the translation of the Thai and Romanian 1858gc books. Next week, Lord willing, i will be going to Myanmar to print this precious book there. Your prayers are requested.

God is love, Love is not God


This was the conclusion of a seminar last Sabbath at the Bangkok Chinese Adventist Church about “Unconditional Love”. Around a month ago, the pastor preached a sermon in which he mentioned this phrase, and one church member told him that was not Biblical. The pastor was quite interested in this, and invited two professors at the SDA seminary in Thailand (Mission College), to come and hold a seminar on this topic. He related how he had not believed in unconditional love when he first became a pastor, but after training at the SDA seminary in Singapore, he became a believer.

Both of the professors have doctorates, i think from Andrews University, the flagship seminary of Seventh-day Adventists. One of them was Dr. Kai, and the other Dr. Fanwar. My only prior exposure to these two men is that one time i listened in a Sabbath school to Dr. Kai’s good lesson, and one sermon at RAIS by Dr. Fanwar in which he said that “We have been told that David was a small boy when he fought Goliath, that he used a little sling, and that he won because of his faith in God. Nothing could be farther from the truth.” I asked him to repent when i left that meeting place.

The introduction by the pastor during church service in the morning was quite “pro unconditional love”, so i was expecting a multitude of words about how this doctrine is true and good, and the PhDs to add some scholarly remarks. Maybe i should say i was “hoping”.

Br. Kai led off with remarks that the SDA church has no official position on this matter. Then he mentioned that it is probably OK for each person to consider themselves as the most loved of God, but it can become a problem if we start to think we are more loved or favored of God than other people. All very well and good.

Br. Fanwar talked next about marrying and having a daughter. He unwittingly made the strongest remark i heard all day about how love is not unconditional. He mentioned how when he saw his newborn daughter, he knew that here was someone he loved so much he could give his life for, and also he would kill anyone who tried to kill her. It seemed to go completely over his head, and over most of the listeners’, that he had just given a strong statement that he doesn’t believe in unconditional love. Of course with his mouth he was quite adamant that he DOES believe in unconditional love.

Pastor Songrit, who called the seminar together, next got up and thanked them, asked for questions from the audience, and after one question, asked his own question, which was quite appropriate. He read Psalms 5:5-6 about how God hates the workers of iniquity. Wow. That is not dodging the issue at all. Br. Kai gave a comment mostly how some things in the Bible are hard to understand. Br. Fanwar gave a convoluted response, asserting that the translation was at fault, and that this text does not negate the idea of unconditional love.

I’m not sure if i was next to get up, or two later, but after one elder who asked a very strange question about how to tell if people really love their country or not, i got the courage to go up front. I agreed that God’s love is very big, and that the Bible talks much more about the love of God than his wrath, but i wanted to introduce some texts that show that God’s love is not unconditional. We read 2Chronicles 19:1,2, Hosea 9:15, John 14:21-23, and then i read a quote from 5RH 06-22-97 about Judas passing the barrier of God’s love. I thank the Lord that i was able to overcome the butterflies in my stomach, and give a straight testimony.

Br. Kai answered first, saying how he had once gone thru the Concordance and counted all the entries related to God’s wrath, and then those related to God’s love, and found that the “wrath” ones were around 100, and the “love” ones were around 80. Then he noticed that the “wrath” ones were usually against some specific object, and the “love” ones were universal in scope.

Br. Fanwar then got up and read something from the Testimonies to the Church, about how God’s love is like the air we breathe, abiding around us. “God’s wrath is his love as experienced by the lost.” What?! I thot God’s wrath was fire at the end time, and has been floods, hail, fire, stones, angels etc. in the past. He tried to make some connection between the air around us is unconditional so God’s love is too, and he can’t believe God would not do something good for the 97% of his fellow Asians who do not know him, etc. Totally unrelated. He closed with something about how God’s love is unconditional, but that doesn’t mean that he looks on the actions all the same. Of course this is to try and cover any questions about him believing that God will save everyone at last. But in this seminar, no one asked such a question.

The pastor ended the seminar with a nice statement about everyone learning things, and that perhaps more time could be devoted to this subject in the future. Then he said that he still believed in unconditional love.

Does it really matter what we believe? Is it really OK for some of God’s people to believe in unconditional love and some not to? I don’t think so. I see the ultimate end of believing this doctrine, and that is that all will at last be saved. Because how can God possibly burn anyone in the lake of fire, and keep other out of the lake of fire, if his love is actually unconditional? How can he love you or i or even his son Jesus any more than Satan himself, because, after all, “unconditional” naturally means that God would have to love everyone exactly equally.

What struck me most about this seminar, is the shallowness of the thinking of most of our church leaders and members. No one dug down to the meaning of the term, or the natural consequences of believing such a doctrine. And when strong texts were quoted showing that God’s love is not unconditional, they were mostly ignored, or assigned the status of “misunderstood”

May we study the inspired words to “show ourselves approved unto God.”