{"id":201,"date":"2009-04-24T03:15:16","date_gmt":"2009-04-23T20:15:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/great-controversy-movie.com\/blog\/?p=201"},"modified":"2012-03-12T11:00:24","modified_gmt":"2012-03-12T04:00:24","slug":"stephen-dickie-islam-gods-forgotten-blessing-video-review","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/great-controversy-movie.com\/blog\/stephen-dickie-islam-gods-forgotten-blessing-video-review\/","title":{"rendered":"stephen dickie “islam, god’s forgotten blessing” video review"},"content":{"rendered":"

F<\/strong><\/p>\n

I went to a seminar held by Jack McNeilus at Southern Adventist University on the last Sabbath of March. It was titled “Islam, God’s Forgotten Blessing”. There was a book of the same name being promoted there, authored by Stephen Dickie.<\/p>\n

Now i’ve had contact with the Adventist\/Muslim Relations director – Jerald Whitehose, and know that he is not promoting Christianity. So i was intrigued that perhaps this would be a Biblically-based approach to Muslim evangelism. But i was destined to be disappointed again.<\/p>\n

The main point of the meeting i attended, was that the Muslims fit into God’s plan in the 7 trumpets of Revelation. That point was brought out by a nicely-done chart. While there were no overtly false things said, there were a few subtle things that made me wonder, but i kept my peace until the end of the seminar. When it was down to just 4 of us left, and i had heard quite a bit, i was mostly satisfied that this man was trying his honest best, in the fear of God, to promote the truth to the Muslims. The last of my 2 or 3 questions\/statements, was something like: “AMR people are trying to make SDA Muslims, but you seem to be trying to make SDA Christians”. His reply was along the lines of “There is no saving value in any name”. I left, mostly dumbfounded that he had so misinterpreted my statement, to make it mean something so common and worldly, rather than taken in a spiritual sense. But wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, i wrote it off, and told the people around me that this group was trying to do something far better than what the AMR people are currently doing. (oh yes, he said the AMR leaders are going to be shunted elsewhere soon).<\/p>\n

I followed up my interest by looking for info on Stephen Dickie, and found several of his videos on Better Life tv. Islam, God’s Forgotten Blessing is here:
\nhttp:\/\/betterlifetv.tv\/media\/video\/st372.wvx<\/a><\/p>\n

While mostly sounding good, there were the little, almost passed-by type of comments that really worried me, so i sent Brother Dickie a email. Below is our exchange.<\/p>\n

—————————————————–
\nFrom: earlysda@hotmail.com
\nTo: sdickie@hotmail.com
\nSubject: questions about presentation on betterlife tv
\nDate: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:25:20 +0900<\/p>\n

Hello Brother Stephen Dickie,
\nLast week i attended one meeting of a 3-part seminar given by Jack McNeilus at Southern Adventist University, Tennessee. He promoted your book, and as i am very interested in spreading the gospel to Muslims, i have been looking for more information on the internet about what you are teaching in that book.<\/p>\n

While i have not been able to find the contents of the book on the internet, i was able to find a video presentation you gave on Better Life tv. I have some questions about comments you made on that video, but first, some background on myself —<\/p>\n

I have read the Qur’an, and in comparing it to the Bible, saw that it is clearly a book inspired from Satan. I made some web pages showing some of the more egregious errors here:
\nhttp:\/\/www.timeoftrouble.com\/quran\/quotes-from-quran.html<\/a><\/p>\n

Around 1 1\/2 years ago i met Jerald Whitehouse at one of his seminars in Bangkok. He said some things that showed he is more a promoter of Islam than of Christianity.<\/p>\n

So i am quite interested in how to reach Muslims, and your new method looked to possibly be the best tool today to do that, but in viewing this video, i am quite worried about your approach too.<\/p>\n

Some concerns:
\n1. You said “Allah is the same god that you and i pray to.”
\n Actually, the Allah of the Qur’an is Satan, as you well know, so i’m trying to understand in what sense you mean this.
\n2. You said “Islam’s reformation is in front of them today”
\n But Islam never was a true religion. It was founded by Satan, so what good will a “reformation” do?
\n3. You said “The Qur’an teaches that when you die, you’re dead”.
\n Surely you have read the Qur’an, like in 20:74 where it says the people neither live nor die in hell???
\n4. You said “Mohammed was the star that fell”.
\n You are probably very close in this one, as Mohammed was one of the most effective agents of Satan ever.<\/p>\n

These are large concerns, and i pray that you will answer them in an honest manner.
\nMay the Holy Spirit work on the hearts of the Muslims today.<\/p>\n

May we uplift Jesus always,
\nDaniel Winters
\n———————————————
\nThis is the reply i received from Brother Dickie:
\n———————————————
\nFrom: sdickie@hotmail.com
\nTo: earlysda@hotmail.com
\nSubject: RE: questions about presentation on betterlife tv
\nDate: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 00:13:47 +0000<\/p>\n

Mr. Winters:
\nYour reputation precedes your email letter. My book is not on the internet for a purpose, I have chosen not to put it on, as it would not sit well with the world of Islam as it is only a book for SDAs. I have other things for Islam. You can find my book at the Collegedale ABC or you can order it from our web site at www.StrawberryMeadowAssociation.com .<\/p>\n

It is interesting to see how you have already judge my work without reading it. Years ago I was told you were a very sharp person, but I would think you would at least read it first then bring your concerns or go public with your findings. I would read what I am saying first and not take what someone is saying I say.<\/p>\n

May the Lord lead you and in your search.<\/p>\n

Stephen Dickie
\n—————————————————
\nAnd my reply:
\n—————————————————
\nBrother Stephen Dickie,
\nThe concerns i raised were your EXACT words taken from your video. I’m not taking what someone is saying you say. And i’m not quoting from or judging your book at all.<\/p>\n

Do you stand by what i have quoted you on in the videos on Better Life tv?<\/p>\n

Look to Jesus,
\nDaniel Winters
\n—————————————————-
\nAs of today, April 23rd, there has been no reply to this last email.
\n
\n==========================================
\nI sent a email to Jack McNeilus too, the man who gave the seminar on “Islam, God’s Forgotten Blessing” at Southern Adventist University on the last Friday and Saturday in March, saying:
\n—————————————————-
\nFrom: earlysda@hotmail.com [mailto:earlysda@hotmail.com]
\nSent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:18 AM
\nTo: baraboosteel@gmail.com
\nSubject: islam seminar concerns, stephen dickie’s sayings<\/p>\n

Hello Brother Mc Neilus,<\/p>\n

I met you several weeks ago at the seminar you held at Thatcher Hall on the SAU campus. We talked a bit after the meeting. I mentioned to you that Jerald Whitehouse is trying to make “Seventh-day Adventist Muslims”, and you seem to be trying to make “Seventh-day Adventist Christians”. Your reply showed that the spiritual intent of my statement was not discerned properly. Perhaps i should have worded it better. Of course i know no name can save us. It is the spiritual application that is important. The spiritual application is – Jerald Whitehouse is basically saying that Muslims are already saved, while it seems you are trying to point them to Jesus Christ to receive salvation.<\/p>\n

After that seminar, i saw some videos by Stephen Dickie, who you referred to several times with approbation in your seminar, and even had one of his books for sale. Below are some quotes that i got from the videos, and sent to Stephen Dickie, asking if he would answer the concerns. He sent back an angry email, not denying anything he had said. So i ask you the same, Brother, do you believe what Stephen Dickie has said here?<\/p>\n

**<\/p>\n

Some concerns:
\n1. You said “Allah is the same god that you and i pray to.”
\n Actually, the Allah of the Qur’an is Satan, as you well know, so i’m trying to understand in what sense you mean this.
\n2. You said “Islam’s reformation is in front of them today”
\n But Islam never was a true religion. It was founded by Satan, so what good will a “reformation” do?
\n3. You said “The Qur’an teaches that when you die, you’re dead”.
\n Surely you have read the Qur’an, like in 20:74 where it says the people neither live nor die in hell???
\n4. You said “Mohammed was the star that fell”.
\n You are probably very close in this one, as Mohammed was one of the most effective agents of Satan ever.<\/p>\n

These are large concerns, and i pray that you will answer them in an honest manner.
\nMay the Holy Spirit work on the hearts of the Muslims today.<\/p>\n

May we uplift Jesus always,
\nDaniel Winters<\/p>\n

—————————————————-
\nBrother Jack McNeilus replied as follows, including the long attachment:
\n—————————————————-
\nMr. Winters,<\/p>\n

Re: Some concerns:
\n1. You said “Allah is the same god that you and i pray to.”
\n Actually, the Allah of the Qur’an is Satan, as you well know, so i’m trying to understand in what sense you mean this.<\/p>\n

I would encourage you to read what Mike Ryan, VP of the SDA church says about Allah, attached below. Apparently as a global spokesperson for the church, he disagrees with you, or understands something you have not seen yet. Note the recent date. He is not alone in this belief. My Adventist pastor friends preaching in places like Jordan and the Sudan openly call God Allah in their home country context. They did so in a free society when we shared information in my Masters course at the Middle East University, home of the SDA church offices in Lebanon and the Middle East. I was told by one of these pastors that is how it is translated in his Arabic language from the Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible. These same pastors are the ones chosen by the world church leaders to be to reach Islam because these guys have practical field experience. If you would like to argue Aramaic and Arabic root words, perhaps you should go to the General Conference theologians. They are probably best able to explain the minutia involved. <\/p>\n

Begin forwarded message:<\/p>\n

From: Justin Kim
\nDate: April 15, 2009 8:36:32 AM GMT-04:00
\nTo: FIG
\nSubject: [fig] Adventist Jargon Alienating, Church Executives Say<\/p>\n

Reply-To: figlist@yahoogroups.com<\/p>\n

Adventist jargon alienating, church executives say
\nProposed church style-guide to sensitize exchanges with other faith groups <\/p>\n

31 Mar 2009, Silver Spring, Maryland, United States
\nElizabeth Lechleitner\/ANN<\/p>\n

Members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s Global Mission Issues committee heard suggestions last week for pruning Adventist jargon, archaic and potentially offensive language from official church communication. <\/p>\n

By using well-meant but often misinterpreted words and phrases, Adventists may end up alienating members of other faith groups rather than ministering to them, Bruce L. Bauer, chair of the department of World Mission, told the delegates, each of whom received a draft of the proposed ‘Style-Guide for Seventh-day Adventist Mission.’ <\/p>\n

Prepared by the church’s Global Mission Religious Study Centers, the style-guide lists potentially offensive words and phrases to be avoided when working with members of four of the world’s main faith groups: Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Postmoderns. <\/p>\n

“Too many [Adventists] go to unchurched or unreached people with a set of sermons or Bible studies that were initially prepared for another cultural setting and never consider the local needs or situations,” Bauer said. <\/p>\n

When talking with Jews and Muslims, the style-guide suggests, pastors and church communicators should avoid “politically charged” language. Calling the Middle East ‘Palestine’ or referring to the state of Israel can be “interpreted as taking sides,” Bauer said. <\/p>\n

The style-guide also cautions Adventists to avoid referring to the church as “spiritual Israel” when talking with Jews. “The church does not need to usurp the identity of Israel in order to exist,” Bauer said. <\/p>\n

Universally offensive words such as “infidel” or “heretic” should never be used to refer an unchurched person, the style-guide said. Also, referring to outreach events as “crusades” is more likely to conjure up images of war and destruction than evangelism, particularly among Muslims. <\/p>\n

Referring to Muhammad as a “false prophet” will not build bridges with Muslims, the style-guide also noted. <\/p>\n

While both Jews and Muslims may take offense to many Christian-oriented phrases, Buddhists are more likely to be confused by Adventist imagery and illustrations, Bauer said. Western Christian terminology — including “sin,” “salvation” and the “blood of Christ” — often doesn’t resonate with Buddhists, who may also struggle to reconcile the concrete Biblical concepts of heaven and hell with their more transient concept of death. <\/p>\n

One delegate expressed concern that Adventists, hoping not to offend, may end up clumsily hiding their beliefs — an effort that would be both “obvious” and potentially manipulative, he said. <\/p>\n

Tailoring the presentation of the church’s core beliefs to better connect with those from various faith backgrounds doesn’t unravel the message, Bauer said. The principles and cautions in the style-guide are simply meant to help Adventists establish a spiritual foundation with those of other faiths in a way that invites further discussion of beliefs. <\/p>\n

As Pat Gustin put it, “You can’t ignore that the Bible says Christ’s blood is essential to salvation, but your opening hymn doesn’t have to be ‘There is a Fountain Filled with Blood.'” <\/p>\n

While not technically a faith group, Postmoderns are also included in the style-guide. Because Postmoderns perceive the word “truth” as restrictive, the style-guide urged Adventists to avoid that and other cut-and-dried terminology. <\/p>\n

Other suggestions for better connecting with Postmoderns include avoiding the phrase “inspired pen” to refer to prolific church writer Ellen G. White, the word “worldly” when describing secular or negative influences and citing “God’s will” when explaining tragedies for which there is no logical basis. <\/p>\n

Delegates questioned the inclusion of some phrases. The style-guide suggested that Adventists avoid the phrase “I’ll pray for you” when talking with Postmoderns because some who hold that worldview may interpret it as an excuse for inaction. However, Artur Stele, president of the Adventist Church in Euro-Asia, said he’d observed that Postmoderns in his region were “surprisingly open to the concept of prayer.” <\/p>\n

When revising the draft, a world church vice president Michael L. Ryan suggested that instead of a list of what not to say, the style-guide also include words and phrases that some traditional Adventists think are taboo, but are in fact appropriate, such as using “Allah” as a reference to God. <\/p>\n

“In all of our communication, we should strive to be clear and sensitive about our message,” said Rajmund Dabrowski, world church communication director. “In this, every word counts,” he said, citing the existing ANN style guide as a potential model for the proposed style-guide. <\/p>\n

Following revisions, the style-guide will ultimately be sent to the administrative committee at the world church’s headquarters for consideration. For now, the style-guide is destined for revisions back at the study centers.<\/p>\n

Filed in Headlines and tagged General Conference, ministry, mission
\nnews.adventist.org
\n—
\nWe must free ourselves from the customs and bondage of society, that when the principles of our faith are at stake, we shall not hesitate to show our colors, even though we are called singular for so doing. – E.G. White
\n—————————————-
\nmy reply:
\n—————————————-
\nIt is sad that even our SDA leaders are blind leaders of the blind, Brother McNeilus,
\nSurely you do understand that my question has nothing at all to do with word origins, and everything to do with the truth that the Allah of the Qur’an, and the God of the Bible are totally opposite beings??? Allah of the Qur’an has no son, but the God of the Bible has a son.<\/p>\n

Let’s follow the one and only true God and his son – Jesus Christ (not the Isa of the Qur’an).
\nSincerely,
\nDaniel Winters
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F I went to a seminar held by Jack McNeilus at Southern Adventist University on the last Sabbath of March. It was titled “Islam, God’s Forgotten Blessing”. There was a book of the same name being promoted there, authored by Stephen Dickie. Now i’ve had contact with the Adventist\/Muslim Relations director – Jerald Whitehose, and …<\/p>\n

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