Recently i had a email exchange with Dave Westbrook who has the web site backtoenoch.org. He has done a lot of good in calling people, especially us Seventh-day Adventists, out of the baleful influence of the cities, to live in the countryside as God has instructed us thru his messenger – Ellen White. He also has some prophetic interpretations and charts which are interesting.
Recently i went to his website again, and listened to a few minutes of a sermon he had on inspiration. After listening to him explain how the words of the 10 Commandments are different in Exodus compared with that in Deuteronomy, he came to the conclusion that it is OK to change the words of God. This position has huge ramifications for the foundation of our belief, so i sent him a message on a form on his web page, which elicited a email from him. We exchanged emails a few times, and in the interest of warning others of this pernicious doctrine that the words of God have been, and can be changed, i post this exchange for all to read and benefit from. May we stand firmly for the truth once delivered to the saints, and never, ever cast doubt on even one word of God.
>>>> This is an enquiry e-mail via http://backtoenoch.org/ from:
>>>> daniel
>>>>
>>>> Hello Brother, While i have respected the work you have done for many
>>>> years in calling our SDA Brethren to a closer walk with the Lord in
>>>> country living, i was very discouraged today to see that you are
>>>> throwing
>>>> doubt on the inspired words in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. “Man
>>>> shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of
>>>> the mouth of God.” Please uphold the words from God.
==========================
>>> From: Dave Westbrook
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:57 AM
>>> To: daniel
>>> Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
>>>
>>> Dear Daniel,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your email expressing your concern. I am puzzled, however,
>>> and would like to know what materials you found from our ministry that is
>>> “throwing doubt on the inspired words in the Bible and Spirit of
>>> Prophecy”? Please clarify this. Thank you.
==========================
>> From: “daniel winters”
>> To: “Dave Westbrook”
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
>>
>>> Good morning Br. Dave,
>>> Sorry for being remiss in not explaining where the error was. The
>>> Subject line of my email explains it a little, but i should have expressed the
>>> exact title of the audio in error. It is in “Have the Books Been Changed?”
>>> Many things i heard in that audio are throwing doubt on the Bible and Spirit
>>> of Prophecy. The words written therein are from God, and we are in deep
>>> peril if we ignore or belittle even one word.
>>>
>>> Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out
>>> of the mouth of God.
>>>
>>> Let’s keep focused on Jesus,
>>> Daniel Winters
==========================
>> From: Dave Westbrook
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:53 AM
>> To: daniel winters
>> Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
>>
>> HI Daniel,
>>
>> Actually, that message shows the errors of those who are teaching that
>> the Spirit of Prophecy books have been changed, and books like The Desire of
>> Ages, Acts of the Apostels, etc., cannot be trusted. Those who believe
>> that God could not protect the messages in the Spirit of Prophecy from being
>> tampered with behind her back and during her lifetime, are the ones who
>> throw doubt on God’s word as revealed in both. It is the attack against
>> the testimony of Jesus that is addressed in both parts 1 and 2 of that
>> series, and thus has everything to do with focusing on Jesus – the Word. Perhaps
>> you are unaware of this attack. Unfurtunately, there are many being taken in
>> by it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but I believe that you are off
>> the mark in your critique on this one. God bless.
>>
>> Dave
==========================
> From: “daniel winters”
> To: “Dave Westbrook”
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:49 AM
> Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
>
>> Hello Brother Dave,
>> Thank you for your response. I’ve studied out the changes to the books
>> with Ellen White’s name on the cover for around 25 years now, and while i’ve
>> only found one outright contradiction during the time her husband was the
>> chief editor at the Review and Herald, there are many, many such examples after
>> he died.
>>
>> The idea that these words are from Ellen White herself is not true, and
>> against her own testimony. So to use the argument that they could not
>> have been changed during her lifetime, but could have been after her lifetime
>> is saying that God is dependent on his messenger being alive to take care of
>> his words.
>>
>> The most fundamental difference between myself and most of us Seventh-day
>> Adventist conservatives, is that i believe that inspiration means
>> “breathed in”, meaning that all the words are from God and must not be changed even
>> one iota.
>>
>> So i ask you to please pray and study to know the will of God, and please
>> lift up the words of God, as they are the words of eternal life, and we
>> suffer eternal peril if we belittle even one word in them.
>>
>> Look to Jesus,
>> Daniel Winters
==========================
> From: Dave Westbrook
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:02 AM
> To: daniel winters
> Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
>
> Dear Daniel,
> I too have studied this out. As Mrs. White warned, when we set out to
> decide what is inspired and what is not, the devil will choose for us. It is
> ironic that you are guilty of the very thing you charge me of – not lifting up
> the word of God. I understand now why you did not like my message on this
> topic, because I show that specific words themselves are changed even in the
> Bible itself (10 commandments, for example) – proving the falsehood of “verbal”
> inspiration. Unless you study and teach only in the Greek and Hebrew
> languages, you aren’t living by your own claims, as everything else is a
> translation and uses different words than the original. In your second
> email to me, you quoted scripture – yet changed the words from the original. The
> teaching that we cannot trust Mrs. White’s books is one of the most
> striking examples of “making of none effect the testimonies”. It is especially
> difficult to be extricated from this error because by continuing to imbibe
> in it, you utlimately place yourself under the influence of the enemy:
> “I have my work to do, to meet the misconceptions of those who suppose
> themselves able to say what is testimony from God and what is human
> production. If those who have done this work continue in this course,
> satanic agencies will choose for them.”—3 Selected Messages, 70.
>
> I have prayed for deliverance for you.
> Dave
==========================
From: “daniel winters”
To: “Dave Westbrook”
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
> Hello Brother Dave,
> You may think that quoting from 2 places in the Bible shows that the words
> of God can be changed, but it shows no such thing. It shows that the Holy
> Spirit had it written one way one time, and a different way a different
> time. They are both the words of God. To say anything different is to
> put yourself above the words of God, and instead of being a learner at the
> feet of God, you put yourself as a judge of what is from God, and what is not
> from God in his most holy of all books -the Bible. You are on sacred
> ground Brother, please take off your shoes and humble yourself at the feet of the
> Creator of the universe.
>
> I never mentioned “verbal inspiration”. That has nothing to do with my
> beliefs. It is a concept coined by “scholars” to debate something about
> which they have no idea about – that is – what really is inspiration? No
> one alive today has had it like God’s messengers who wrote the Bible, and
> Ellen White.
>
> PH096
> Testimonies on the Case of Elder E. P. Daniels
> At the Sanitarium and School at Loma Linda
> *********************
> Brother and Sister Daniels, must I conclude that the word of the
> living God has no special weight with you? Must I decide by your course
> of action that the testimonies of warning, reproof, and entreaty,
> calling you to God’s word, to listen to his voice, are set aside by you
> as unworthy your notice, as an idle tale?
> I have not spoken to you my own words, but the words given me of God.
> You speak your own words, and
> with such intensity and assurance that you make those whom you address
> believe error to be truth, and that the testimonies which God has set
> in the church are of but little weight.
> *********************
>
> They are not humans’ words, but God’s words.
>
> “In your second email to me, you quoted scripture – yet changed the words
> from the original.”
> Brother, is your God so small that he cannot speak a “pure language” that
> includes all the languages known to us humans? I’m amazed that someone
> who stands as a leader in Israel is so deficient in knowledge of these things
> that even a young child can know!
>
> Brother, please pay close attention to the following words of God, and may
> we both, and all us Seventh-day Adventists, put them into practice today:
> The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials
> *****************************
> Brethren, why are we not more diligent, not only in hearing but in
> doing the words of Christ? “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by
> every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.” Matt. 4:4. It is
> because there is such inattention in hearing the lessons Christ has
> given to us, and such negligence in doing His words, that there is so
> great want of spiritual health and vital spiritual life in our midst.
> The Spirit of the Lord is grieved with our disregard of the words of
> the heavenly Teacher, and we do not have peace, joy, and heavenly
> discernment. If there were less combating and more praying for the mind
> that was in Christ Jesus and for divine grace to win souls, there would
> be altogether a different atmosphere in these meetings.
> *****************************
>
> Please search your heart Brother. You know very well it is an extremely
> strange thing for one to “pray for deliverance” for one who believes all
> the words in the Bible are from God. This shows clearly the working of a
> different spirit, so i ask you to please repent, and turn to Jesus.
>
> Let’s keep focused on Jesus and his words, putting them into practice,
> Daniel Winters
==========================
From: Dave Westbrook
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:09 AM
To: daniel winters
Subject: Re: backtoenoch.org: changes in the books
HI Daniel,
My prayer is for your deliverence. Please, live up to your own standard.
Then, you will be in a better position to teach others on these points. May
God help you.
Dave
=========================
This is the end of our exchange. The dates don’t match up sometimes because of the large time difference, but they are in order.
Has anyone ever heard of someone “praying for deliverance” for someone who believes all the words in the Bible are from God? This is astounding, but no doubt we will see even stranger things as we get closer to the consummation of all our hopes, Jesus Christ appearing in the clouds to take us home, exactly as he has told us he would. Don’t let anyone shake your faith in the words of God in the Spirit of Prophecy and Bible!!!
Dave is correct and you are mistaken. The original texts are the inspired texts, but translations are not so and have many provable errors in all of them. We need to study using concordances and prayer to really understand the meanings of the original hebrew and greek texts. Stop attacking others on issues you seem to invent out of thin air. Dave is not saying you can change the Word of God but is showing from the Word that inspiration is not word for word but thoughts and images are shown and the writer writes these things shown down in their own language and style.
Thank you “Wake Up” for clearly showing why we need to call on our Brethren to repent for believing and spreading this error that the words in the Bible are not from God.
What did Jesus say in Matthew 4:4?
“Every word”.
What did God’s messenger – Ellen White write in the 1888 Materials?
*******************
Brethren, why are we not more diligent, not only in hearing but in doing the words of Christ? “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.” Matt. 4:4. It is because there is such inattention in hearing the lessons Christ has given to us, and such negligence in doing His words, that there is so great want of spiritual health and vital spiritual life in our midst.
.
The Spirit of the Lord is grieved with our disregard of the words of the heavenly Teacher, and we do not have peace, joy, and heavenly discernment. If there were less combating and more praying for the mind that was in Christ Jesus and for divine grace to win souls, there would be altogether a different atmosphere in these meetings.”
.
Let’s believe God’s words, and have a totally different atmosphere in our meetings 🙂
This tends towards a personal conflict brought public.
let us with meekness of heart hold each other’s hand and be compliments.
God has His genuine translations but the devil will always have a counterfeit
Dear Pastor Westbrook:
I listened to your CDs on “Have the Books beenChanged.” You did a marvelous job in proving they have not been changed. That EGW ok’d minor changes that made the subject more clear. Satan has his agents to downplay the Spirit of Prophecy. I love your sticktuitiveness until you have explained all that is possible. In Jesus Love, Elsie
Elsie,
God proves Pastor Westbrook to be in error.
Shouldn’t we believe God rather than any pastor?
Danny, this is sad. You’re causing a distraction from our mission and unnecessary division. David is not saying what you attribute to him.
When David states: “I show that specific words themselves are changed even in the Bible itself”, do you agree with him, Mark?
Pride comes before a fall.
“L’ignorance toujours sait se montrer arrogante,” Jean de la Bruyere, XVII Century French Philosopher – Translation: Ignorance always knows how to show itself arrogant.