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heppenstall most influential?

Leave a Comment / sigh and cry / September 6, 2008 September 19, 2008

Another sigh-and-cry abomination for this Sabbath afternoon’s reading.

Today i read the August 2008 Adventist World magazine. There are usually a few uplifting articles, and a few discouraging ones. Sadly enough, usually the higher the writer’s position in the SDA church, the worse they are. Today’s read was no exception.

The article is titled “Help Along the Way” by our president, Jan Paulsen.
This sabbath afternoon i read the August 2008 Adventist World magazine. There are usually a few uplifting articles, and a few discouraging ones. Sadly enough, usually the higher the writer’s position in the SDA church, the worse they are. Today’s read was no exception.

The article is titled “Help Along the Way” by our president, Jan Paulsen.
http://www.adventistworld.org/article.php?id=365
He says the usual – his mother and his elementary school teacher were among the most influential in his life, then he introduces one more person in this category. The man is none other than Edward Heppenstall! This is the man who (as documented below, said:

The old creature or the old man remains with us until the day of our death or the day of Christ’s coming; but as long as we look at Christ the author and the finisher of our faith, sin and self cannot prevail. … The Christian believes that there still remains in the regenerate man a fountain of evil, that sin always exists in the saints till they are divested of their mortal bodies.

Here is Pastor Paulsen’s personal experience with the man:

I remember going to his office one day midway through the term and saying, “Dr. Heppenstall, you have destroyed everything I have believed about the sanctuary and you’ve given me nothing in place of it.” It was probably an arrogant thing for a student to say, and yet it was provoked by honest frustration. He replied, “Jan, remember—the sign of a mature mind is waiting until all the evidence is in.” And he was right. As the term wore on, more started to fit together. Not everything he said I could accept in exactly the way he stated it. But I honor him for the fact that he took his students down difficult paths of study—paths that are necessary for those who wish to function effectively as a minister.

Here was an instructor who “destroyed everything” Jan Paulsen believed about the sanctuary, and yet these paths are “necessary for those who wish to function effectively as a minister”???? OK, but i don’t want to listen to that kind of minister, and certainly will not support them with my tithe!!!

Edward Heppenstall was a very influential man, not only with Pastor Paulsen, but with all the SDA theologians.

http://spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/
archive16-20/18-1bull.pdf
In a survey done in 1985 which tried to define “The Intellectual World of Adventist Theologians”, Edward Heppenstall came out #1in the category of “Most influential SDA writers” – almost double that of the runner-up Ellen White!!! None of the under-39 group considered Ellen White as an “influential writer” – so it is no wonder where we are today in 2008 – with very few pastors who really read and believe Ellen White.

As a side note, it is interesting that of the respondents who had gotten their education from within the SDA educational system – 35% considered the Great Controversy theme as a major theological contribution, while only 11%of those educated outside the SDA system said so….Please notice that Jan Paulsen got some of his education outside of the SDA system, as nearly all the top PhD educators do nowdays.

To read some more reference material about Heppenstall,
…

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blending compromise

Leave a Comment / sigh and cry / September 4, 2008 September 4, 2008

The following is from the Pacific Union Recorder about the retirement of the Southeast California Conference president back in i believe 2004. Notice how nothing is said about the truth or Jesus, just that this president’s solutions “have not split the church”. Sure doesn’t sound like Jesus’ way of doing things. Notice too that men and women pastors carry the same credential. Who will speak up to stop this blasphemy?

http://www.pacificunionrecorder.com/104/5/18444.html
Several hot topics in Southeastern could have erupted like volcanoes elsewhere. Strong opinions swirled around churches that adopted contemporary music and worship styles, a request to establish a Black conference, the debate on women’s ordination, and selling San Pasqual Academy, the conference’s only boarding school.

Solutions—arrived at through a process of inclusiveness and discussion—are a blend of compromise and creativity. “They don’t satisfy everybody, but they have not split the church,” one administrator pointed out.

Today, a broad spectrum of worship styles coexist in SECC. Men and women pastors carry the same credential, identifying them as “ordained-commissioned.” The conference executive committee voted to support churches that preferred to become a Black conference (though the proposal was later rejected by the Pacific Union Conference as a whole). And several million dollars from the San Pasqual sale have been turned into endowments that will benefit schools for decades to come.

adventist extraordinary tithe compromise

4 Comments / sigh and cry / September 4, 2008 September 6, 2008

http://news.adventist.org/data/2008/1207597266/index.html.en
“Not only have tithes and offerings increased,” Lemon said, “but the church was blessed to receive a multimillion dollar ‘extraordinary tithe.’ Lemon’s April 6 financial report at the church’s spring business meeting reflected about half of that extraordinary tithe, which was first announced at the church’s fall 2007 business meeting.
….
Finance officers also addressed the church’s investments in light of the fluctuating market. Commenting specifically on the church’s retirement funds, world church associate treasurer Roy Ryan said because the church’s holdings are long-term, diversified and conservative, risks are “manageable.”

Given the volatile markets, “no one is expecting a robust financial year in 2008,” Ryan added, “but the strength of international and emerging markets are encouraging to United States-based investors.”
================================
What is this “extraordianry tithe” thing? If just a one-time large amount – very good….

How can anyone possibly donate funds to the Seventh-day Adventist church knowing that they are doing this with the funds? Can you just imagine at all Jesus calling his disciples together and saying “The risk to our money-bag is ‘manageable’. Sure am glad we have some funds invested in Roman gold. Judas, you might want to look into investing in emerging European economies.” ???

I do remember around 20 years ago seeing that some SDA church funds were invested in Wendy’s Hamburgers!
================================

http://news.adventist.org/data/2007/1192473066/index.html.en
Lemon also presented a special report on an extraordinary amount of tithe the church’s world headquarters received earlier this year. Council delegates voted to receive it and have it used for the church’s worldwide work.
….
“We have consulted with many on this issue and we want it clearly understood that there is no change in our position that tithe … should be turned into the local conference through the local church,” Lemon said.

“It would have to be an extraordinary amount for us to consider this again.”
================================
Aah, now we see what this “extraordinary tithe” thing is. Someone sold off some multinational company for many millions of dollars, and gave 10% to the church. Since the amount was so large, they gave it directly to the General Conference. Now the rules the GC officials themselves have made, state that all tithes must go thru the local church. Notice how easily these men are bot off – “It would have to be an extraordinary amount for us to consider this again”. Satan must be laughing as he sees God’s church’s leaders so easily sell their rules and/or priniciples for extra zeroes in a bank account. What a farce.
————
Update September 6.
http://www.adventistworld.org/article.php?id=249
Finally i found the quote i knew i had read in some Adventist World magazine about this issue, it is by president Jan Paulsen telling us that this extraordinary tithe is “funds that were given very specifically for the mission work of the church.” This is not just a farce of the church-generated rules, this is a slap in the face of God that we would allow someone to SPECIFY where their TITHE monies go. President Paulsen, what about the 3 dollars and 50 cents of tithe given by the illegal immigrant? Can they come to the GC headquarters and hand it over to the financial officers and SPECIFY where they want it to go? Repent.

sigh and cry

Leave a Comment / sigh and cry / September 4, 2008 September 4, 2008

This is something you absolutely must do if you wish to receive the mark of God in your forehead (and thus not receive the mark of the beast in your forehead).

Ezekiel 9:4
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Jerusalem represents the people of God, and perhaps more closely interpreted, would be the absolute heart of the work – ie: Where the leaders of God’s people are. The Mark itself may also have some kind of outward manifestation, but that is unlikely. It is mostly referring to a “settling into the truth”.

Now notice WHERE the people who receive the mark are, and WHAT they are doing.
Are they outside of Jerusalem? In Egypt or Rome? No, they are all INSIDE Jerusalem. This is the most powerful point that has kept me inside the Seventh-day Adventist church all these years. Even when the church looks to be all headed to hell in apostasy, i know that to receive the mark of God, i must be INSIDE this church.

WHAT are the people doing who receive the mark? Are they excusing wrongs among God’s people? Are they compromising with the world? Maybe they are not even going along with the wickedness in the church, but maybe just keeping their mouths shut? NO! They are “sighing and crying”. About what? This is the most controversial part of the whole “sighing and crying” interpretation.

Some people just plain like to complain about everything. They are happiest when complaining. This is because of the “root of bitterness” which they have not allowed Jesus Christ to dig up and throw out of their hearts. If you don’t see exactly like them in everything – “You’re Lost!”. This type of “sigher and crier” gives a bad name to the whole group – of course making Satan happy.

Some people refuse to say anything bad about anyone’s sins. But these people haven’t a shred of support from Ezekiel 9 for their position, and they know it. They try to make up for the deficieny of inspired support in Ezekiel 9 by quoting unrelated Bible texts saying we should “love” and “be kind” and “don’t gossip” and “don’t judge” etc. etc. These texts tho must be understood to not negate what Ezekiel 9 so clearly says. As always, the Bible must be read in context. Otherwise, you start baptising for the dead, and believing that Satan will be in heaven (because all who believe are saved, and Satan believes!).

So the proper heart attitude must be present to “sigh and cry” in the manner that God wants so as to receive the mark in your forehead. We must not be haughty, “holier than thou”, or gleeful when we point out the sins in the church. The whole purpose of this is to wake up people, to show them their sins, so that they will repent and come to God, so that God will have a clean church when he returns. Of course the sighing and crying helps cleanse our own hearts too.

Hopefully in the future i will be able to post some things in our beloved Seventh-day Adventist church that make one “sigh and cry”.

Following are some Spirit of Prophecy quotes by Ellen White about “sighing and crying”. We must all be doing it. Get ready! Get ready! Get ready!

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ernie knoll’s dreams

33 Comments / christian study / August 27, 2008 August 28, 2008

The following is regarding dreams of Ernie Knoll. Ernie Knoll is a life-long Seventh-day Adventist, an elder in the church, and has been having dreams. Some say the dreams are from God, some say from the Devil.

This is my take on the situation, after reading what one man on the internet said in favor of the dreams, and what Pastor Steve Wohlberg and Eugene Prewitt have said against the dreams.

Please note, I have NOT read any of the dreams. So all i know about this, is what has been quoted by others. I don’t know why, but somehow i’m not moved to go and read the dreams for myself. Perhaps in this way, i can be more of a neutral "judge". What i have written is in black, Steve Wohlberg’s quotes are in blue, and Eugene Prewitt’s are in green. What Ernie Knoll wrote is within quotes and purple. (i do hope he has been quoted correctly).

In the dreams, an angel is usually present who identifies himself as "the Herald".

From Steve Wohlberg’s observations:
——————————-
He also states that some have counseled him to test the Herald with 1 John 4:3. Ernie wrote:
"Knowing that an angel of Satan can only answer that Jesus did not come in the flesh, if the Herald stated this, it would prove that he is an agent of Satan and is trying to deceive many. However, if the Herald answered that Jesus did come in the flesh, then that would mean I am not being deceived."

How do we know for certain that Satan’s angels cannot make such a confession? And even if the Herald does make a true confession, does this really “prove” that he is of God and that Ernie has not been deceived?

Ernie Knoll is also quoted as writing:"I watched as it was decided that Jesus would come to Earth as a created Being." This is a problem, as Jesus is never said to be "created" in inspired writings.

Amen, Pastor. This is a yellow flag for sure.

…the Herald then begins to rebuke those who have opposed his "messages":
"The Herald now steps back and walks to the middle of the room. He holds out the three glass tablets as one tablet and says, “This is a message for all who will accept and be willing to hear.” The tablet says, “Let he that rides dismount and prostrate before the Lord of hosts, the Creator of the universe, He who came to be the created. Bow before your Master and confess your sins so all will hear of your rebellion. A message was sent to a chosen messenger and you denied your Lord’s ear and convinced others to turn away."
—————————-
All the above seem to me to be legitimate concerns about whether or not the dreams are from God. However, Pastor Wohlberg also raises questions about the source of the dreams by panning remarks that directly rebuke him, which is NOT any reason at all to reject the dreams.

He disparages the source of the dreams because they talk against Ethel Price and Ed Reid, both of whom Steve Wohlberg respects, especially Ed Reid. Pastor, have you never read of what Ellen White wrote about George Butler and Uriah Smith? These were high-up leaders in the SDA church, much higher and much more revered by the lay members than any of you three, yet the Holy Spirit gave scathing rebukes, pointing out their open and secret sins.
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3 prophetic questions

Leave a Comment / christian study / June 16, 2008 June 16, 2008

Let me ask 3 questions:

1. When was (or will be) Daniel 9:24 completely fulfilled?

2. When was (or will) God’s people receive the seal in their foreheads?

3. How terrible are God’s “woes” in Revelation when we can’t even agree on what they were (if they are history already)!

1,260 / 6 = 2008???

2 Comments / christian study / June 16, 2008 June 16, 2008

There are many strange prophetic interpretations floating among Seventh-day Adventist circles today. Last Sabbath at the Bangkok Chinese SDA Church, there was a pastor from Australia with a new twist. But can he show us from the Bible how he got the idea to divide 1260 by 6 and then add that to 1798 to arrive at 2008? And does grasping at 1888+120=2008 seem a bit far-fetched to anyone else besides myself? But if he or anyone can show from inspired words that this is truth, then i am happy and willing to follow all truth. Many times tho, i’ve seen people come up with crazy “timing” prophecies which cause an excitement for a while, but when the time is passed and nothing has happened, the people’s hearts become harder than stones.

There were people promoting the “Jubilee Cycles” among us Seventh-day Adventists in the late 1980s-early 1990s. What they showed looked pretty good. It is true that the Jubilee cycle was very important to Jewish society and to their relationship with God. They calculated that the year 1994 would be the end of the Grand Jubilee of Jubilees if i remember right, and some people got really worked up about it and left the church and sold their stuff and bot land way out in the country etc. etc. It is very hard, if not impossible, for those people ever to come back to the truth, and they put a big stain on ALL prophecy study.

Satan has led many since just right after the October 22, 1844 disappointment to point to some day or year as something special happening, only to disappoint people, and make them that much more resistant to any kind of prophecy studying. That’s what i see happening – after the false interpretations fail, it makes it much more difficult to wake people up to study prophecy at all. I believe that there is a LOT more in Daniel and Revelation that is still future, but it is very difficult to study with anyone, as most of us believe the “safe” way is to just believe what Uriah Smith wrote over 100 years ago.

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prophecy-short study

Leave a Comment / christian study / May 29, 2008 May 29, 2008

Prophecy

Who wants to know the future? Does God know the future? Does Satan know the future?Review the Garden of Eden story.

What did God say would happen to Adam and Eve if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil? Did that happen like God said? Read Genesis 3:14-15. God prophesied to Satan in the serpent that God would one day destroy Satan, but Satan will hurt God before being destroyed.

Before God does something big he always tells it to a prophet (Amos 3:7). A prophet gives God’s words to everyone. Who was the prophet who talked about a great flood to come? Who was the greatest prophet (after Jesus himself) (Matthew 11:11)

Read Matthew 24:3-44. Hilite verses 4,5,11,23-27.

Are all prophets from God? How can we tell if a prophet is from God or not? Everything the prophet says must come true, and what he speaks must agree with the Bible (Isaiah 8:20, Deut.18:22).

All fortune tellers and palm readers and horoscopes etc. are from Satan. Satan can guess the future very well, and make you believe he is a true prophet, but he is not. Never pay money to someone to “know your future”.

Jesus and Satan are having a big battle. Who will win? (Rev. 20:7-10). God has prophesied this to comfort and cheer us. It will happen. Each of us can choose to live forever with Jesus in heaven, or to be on Satan’s side and die forever.

Jesus’ second coming-short study

1 Comment / christian study / May 29, 2008 May 29, 2008

Jesus’ 2nd Coming

Jesus’ disciples wanted to know some signs of the end of the world, so in Matthew 24 Jesus gave a long talk to them pointing out these signs. The whole chapter is very instructive in telling us today what we need to look out for to be prepared for Jesus’ 2nd coming.

What kind of signs are mentioned? – wars, famines, disease, earthquakes, people being the same as in Noah’s day etc. Verse 15 talks about an “abomination of desolation” that is very important to know, but no one today clearly understands what this is. Verse 20 talks about the “sabbath”, showing that this day is of special interest in the last time. We must keep the 7th day sabbath.

Before the real Jesus appears, a false Jesus will appear. This is Satan as an “angel of light” (2Corin.11:14). Satan is very handsome and beautiful and will deceive almost everyone.

When the real Jesus comes he will be seen by everyone at once as he will be in a big white cloud surrounded by angels and his feet will not touch the ground. Also, when the real Jesus comes, all good people who have died will come back to life and go up in the cloud to heaven. 1Thess 4:13-18.

Now Jesus will forgive our sins if we pray to him. But before he comes back, he will stop that work and then there is no more forgiveness of sins. Those who don’t believe in Jesus or do what he says will at the last be burned up (Rev. 20:15).

Heaven will be wonderful! Jesus is making mansions for us there now (John 14:1-3). There will be no more pain or suffering (Rev. 21:4), and we will live forever and ever..

sanctuary-short study

Leave a Comment / christian study / May 29, 2008 May 29, 2008

Sanctuary

How did the sanctuary service get started? The first sacrifice we find in the Bible involves two sons of Adam and Eve. Genesis 4:3-7 relates how Cain brought an offering of the “fruit of the ground”, while Abel brought of the “firstborn of the flock”. God accepted Abel’s sacrifice, but not Cain’s. By this story we see that God had instructed them already about a sacrificial system, and the requirements were known. The requirements involved shedding the blood of an animal.

The first “dwelling” we see made for God is the tabernacle made by Moses. It was made according to the pattern God showed him (Exodus 25:9).

A very large portion of the Bible is devoted to explaining the sanctuary service. Everything about the sanctuary service points to Jesus Christ as the “Lamb of God”. Nearly everything involved shedding blood. The sanctuary service showed Jesus what he must do while he was a man on earth and that he must die, and likewise shows us what we must be doing now as we get ready for the final crisis and Jesus’ soon return.

All Christians know that now we do not need to kill animals to have our sins forgiven by Jesus. Because he died on the cross for our sins, we can come boldly to him thru prayer for forgiveness. But does that mean as many Christians assert, that everything to do with the sanctuary is done away? YES, regarding a physical sanctuary on this earth, but NO regarding a sanctuary in heaven.

Hebrews is the great New Testament book tying together the earthly sanctuary and the heavenly sanctuary. Heb. 8:2,5 show clearly that there is a heavenly sanctuary, and what Moses built was just a model of the true one made by God in heaven.

Jesus is our great High Priest. We also will be made priests and kings someday (Rev. 1:6, 20:4-6). He went into the Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary to begin his ministry on the Day of Pentecost nearly 2000 years ago. He continued there until October 22, 1844 when he moved into the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary to start the cleansing process (see Daniel 8:14). Studying all the furniture, layout, services, and even materials used in the earlthly sanctuary helps us to understand the heavenly service, and how we fit in this great plan better.

state of the dead – short study

Leave a Comment / christian study / May 29, 2008 May 29, 2008

State of the Dead

God made humans to live forever. He gave them a Tree of Life (Gen. 2:9) to make them live forever. In Genesis 2:17 he tells them that IF they do one thing, they “shall durely die”. This shows that dying is not natral or inevitable. Even the food given humans and animals did not include anything dying (Gen.1:29-30).

The serpent (Satan) said in Genesis 3:4 that if they do that one thing they will not surely die”. Either God or the serpent is lying! In Genesis 3:19 God says “For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.: In verse 24 it shows that after sinning, humans could not eat from the tree of life anymore

But Satan has made many people believe that death is not returning to dust, but being conscious somehow of either pain or happiness. “Hell” is seen by most religions to be a place of perpetual torment. Revelation 20:10 is often used to support that idea: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Carefully reading just a few more verses, down into chapter 21 verse 1 shows clearly tho, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.” If the first earth is passed away, the lake of fire that was on it must be no more also!!!

Simple reasoning should suffice too, to show that the doctrine of eternal torment is a lie. If i’m a bad person who cheats, lies, steals, kills, commits adultery, worships idols, breaks the sabbath etc., and die without repenting at say, the age of 23, would it be fair of God to burn me for 23 years? 230 years? 2,300,000,000 years? No? What about ALL ETERNITY? How could i possibly have “no tears” anymore in heaven if i knew my mom was burning and burning and burning forever below? Yuck!

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conservative contentions

9 Comments / christian study / January 1, 2008 March 15, 2009

Generally speaking, i have always thot of myself as a “Conservative Seventh-day Adventist”. The main difference i see between the “Liberal Seventh-day Adventists” and the Conservatives, is that the Liberals believe that what you do has nothing to do with salvation. Therefore, there is no need to try to live a godly lifestyle. This view accounts for a lot of the compromise we see with the world that has come into the Seventh-day Adventist church in doctrines too, but most noticeably in lifestyles, with even homosexuality being accepted by some of the more “progressive” Liberals (currently liberals like to call themselves “progressives”, and conservatives like to call themselves “historicists”. i’m not interested in names, and even dividing them into these 2 lib/con camps is an arbitrary affair, but the fact is, everyone fits, to varying degrees, into one of these two groups).

Believing that what i do IS important in relating to my salvation, i identify with the conservatives. The Bible is very clear that no liars, for example, will go to heaven. Ellen White’s books are FULL of counsel on how to eat, dress, drink, sleep, every aspect of our lives. This is God’s will, to prepare us for the soon coming of Jesus, as only a holy people can meet a holy God.

Having said that, i have five main contentions with conservatives in the Seventh-day Adventist church. This

1. I believe the Bible is the WORD OF GOD, and that there are no mistakes in it. No, i’m not talking about the translations, and yes, i do know that the copyists thru the ages changed a bit, but in the original manuscripts, the words are the words of God himself – not “the ideas of God as given to man and then the men/women wrote words they chose”. In the SDA official beliefs it says the Bible is “infallible”, which is not the same as “inerrant”. Of course liberals believe in mistakes in the Bible, but many conservatives do too 🙁

2. Nature of Christ: Surprisingly, the Liberals are closer to the correct view than the Conservatives. The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy are very clear that Christ was born with no tendency to sin, but we are. What is difficult about believing that?

3. Most Conservatives are stuck in the past. No kidding 🙂 Really, they refuse to read Daniel and Revelation seeing the prophecies as anything pointing to the future. They’ve read so much of Uriah Smith’s stuff, and those who repeated what he wrote (most of which came from William Miller in the 1844 movement), that they are in big danger of repeating the Jewish experience of being destroyed for not understanding the prophecies which applied to them. Yes, William Miller was especially directed of God to arrive at his prophetic interpretations, but he had to have everything finished by 1843/4! Especially the 1260, 1290, 1335 days in Daniel, and the 7 Trumpets in Revelation cannot have possibly happened in their final fulfillment as i write this in 2008. Some of the liberals are starting to see this.

4. I forgot.
5. Unconditional Love is a concept not supported by any inspired writing. To think even that if God loves Satan now, and i’m supposed to be like God, then i should be loving Satan too?!?! From what i’ve studied, this phrase was first used in the 1950s by two psychologists in the U.S., then made a bit popular during the hippie ’60s, then entered Sunday-keeping churches in the ’70s, then the SDA church in the 80s, and by now this concept is deeply rooted among our people. What always amuses me is the violent (usually very violent) reaction i get from people when i tell them i don’t believe this doctrine. ha! So much for their love…. No, God says he “hates” bad people in the Bible like in IIChronicles 19:2, and the first 11 chapters of Psalms, and i believe it. He will kill all of the bad people at the end, showing how much “unconditional love” he has. May we repent and come to him before our names come up in the judgment which is going on now.

SDA liberal and conserative positions

So while my heart is generally with the Conservative group, and supports their interpretation of the inspired word, these points need to be considered, repented of where we have done wrong, and then make a covenant with God that we will follow the truth, and nothing but the whole truth. So help us God.

pope and jan paulsen in common

36 Comments / sigh and cry / December 5, 2007 August 26, 2012

Just found something on the net i didn’t know before. It makes me disgusted about my beloved SDA church…..
Leader of the Seventh-day Adventist church, Jan Paulsen, received some of his schooling at the same school the pope did! The University of Tubingen is also the school: “which initiated historical analysis of Biblical texts, an approach also generally referred to as the higher criticism”!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universitat_Tubingen

We must put a stop to this madness of getting our leaders from Satan’s schools!

Edited on Aug 26,2012 – the following link is dead:
http://www.temcat.com/TC%20Letters/Letters-P2.htm#Paulsens_Alma_Mater_

adventist/muslim relations

75 Comments / christian study / November 26, 2007 December 22, 2008

Yesterday i went to an Adventist/Muslim Relations seminar held in the Thailand SDA Mission compound. The two speakers were Rick McEdwards, and Jerald Whitehouse. Rick McEdwards is the Global Mission leader for the Southern-Asia Pacific Division, while Jerald Whitehouse is the leader of the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference organization called Global Center for Adventist-Muslim Relations.

Both of these men were very nice, spoke in a friendly manner, and seemed knowledgeable about their subject. With about 5% of the population in Thailand being Muslim, it is important to know how to reach them, to tell them about Jesus Christ. And while some good things were taught, the main idea was definitely not.

Brother Rick gave his talk first, and he mentioned that “We are ambassadors. I don’t call someone to be a citizen of my country. If someone wants to become a citizen of my country, i must help them.” hmmmm This sounds quite foreign to what the disciples did of preaching about Jesus, and baptizing in Jesus’ name, and resolving not to do anything except uplift Jesus….

He continued with “Why develop relationships with Muslims?”
1. Build relationships of mutual understanding
A. To clear misunderstandings listen and study
B. Develop relationship of trust
C. Takes sincere dialogue and discussion
2. Socialize with people of other cultures
3. Encourage each other to submit lives to God
Be united against secularism
4. Create communities of peace between religions
5. To build up God’s kingdom

While all these are admirable, except perhaps the study the other’s religion part, there is one glaring omission. Can you see it? Let’s continue with what the main speaker had to say.

Jerald Whitehouse said:

“All humans carry breath of God in them, so i should respect them.”

Then he quoted 2Tim. 2:23, 2Cor 5:17-18, Sura 29:46, and Sura 16:25. Here’s where anyone with an open heart should have started questioning what was going on – he was placing the Qur’an on the same level as the Bible. In fact, he made a point of telling us how much he respects the Qur’an, and showed us how he opens it carefully and lays it down carefully. Sura 29:46 says something about not arguing with the people of the Book (meaning not to argue with Christians or Jews), and 16:25 says something about “we worship the same God you do” (meaning their Allah is the same as the Christian “God”.) This is definitely a red-flag statement. He then went on to say, speaking like he was a Muslim, and saying softly out to the 40-45 in attendance – “We worship the same God you do”. I shook my head sideways.

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did God say “don’t touch” to Eve?

5 Comments / christian study / September 30, 2007 June 19, 2008

Post edited June 19, 2008

Regarding God telling Adam and Eve to not touch the forbidden fruit:
***********************
ti: Spiritual Gifts. Volume 3
pr: 2
pg: 35In the midst of the garden, near the tree of life, stood the tree
of knowledge of good and evil. Of this tree the Lord commanded our
first parents not to eat, neither to touch it, lest they die. He told
them that they might freely eat of all the trees in the garden except
one; but if they ate of that tree they should surely die.
**********************************************
ti: The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One
ct: The Temptation and Fall
pg: 27
**********************
In the midst of the garden, near the tree of life, stood the tree
of knowledge of good and evil. This tree was especially designed of God
to be the pledge of their obedience, faith and love to him. Of this
tree the Lord commanded our first parents not to eat, neither to touch
it, lest they die. He told them that they might freely eat of all the
trees in the garden except one; but if they ate of that tree they
should surely die.

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pt: Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald
dt: 02-24-1874
at: Redemption, No. 1
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Eve had overstated the words of God’s command. He had said to Adam
and Eve, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt
not eat of it; for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely
die.” In Eve’s controversy with the serpent, she added the clause,
“Neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” Here the subtlety of the
serpent was seen. This statement of Eve gave him advantage, and he
plucked the fruit, and placed it in her hand, and used her own words,
“He hath said, ‘If ye touch it, ye shall die.’ You see no harm comes to
you from touching the fruit, neither will you receive any harm by
eating it.”
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So yes, the Lord DID tell them not to even touch the forbidden fruit. Eve did not tell a lie or even overstate by telling the serpent that they were not supposed to touch the fruit. She was just repeating what the Lord had told her.

How can this be when the Bible only mentions about God’s command not to eat of the fruit? God did not have the Bible writers say anything about touching the fruit, but in giving an expanded view to Ellen White, God chose to tell her about this fact. The Bible does not directly say either that the Sabbath issue will be the great issue in the last days, but that information WAS given to Ellen White. It doesn’t contradict the Bible at all, just gives added information so that those who live in the last days can prepare better to withstand Satan’s temptations.
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I have studied quite a bit of material with Ellen White’s name on it, and the ONLY instance i have ever seen of any contradiction in that material before 1881 is this question about whether God said to not touch the forbidden fruit or not. After her husband died in 1881 tho, and the chief editor changed, there can be found many contradictions. Just as in the case of the Bible, i believe that with material with Ellen White’s name on it, the closer we go back to the originals – the better.